No signal from certain transponders at 16e?

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greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
As some of you know from my prior threads, I recently set up a new motor for my satellite dish. It is working fine with USALS, I'm receiving just about everything I should from 28E to 30W, with good, strong signals.

The only odd thing is that I am in Slovakia but I'm not getting any signal at all from the transponders for two Slovak providers on 16E, Orange and Antik TV. I know the dish is pointing correctly at 16E because I'm getting other transponders, such as HRT Croatia and TV Romania, which are on the same Europe B beam. I've checked carefully that I've entered the correct frequencies and SRs, but on every Orange and Antik transponder there is no signal at all.

What am I doing wrong?
 
M

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,477
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
The only Orange, I can find, on 16E, is Orange Reunion, which is French, and uses the South East Africa beam:
Code:
https://www.lyngsat.com/packages/Orange-Reunion.html
Code:
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Eutelsat-16A-South-East-Africa.html
There is also an Antik Sat package, on 16E, but this uses the Europe B beam:
Code:
https://www.lyngsat.com/packages/Antik-Sat.html
Code:
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Eutelsat-16A-Europe-B.html
If these aren't the channels, you're posting about, please post more detailed information.
 
G

greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
The only Orange, I can find, on 16E, is Orange Reunion, which is French, and uses the South East Africa beam:
Code:
https://www.lyngsat.com/packages/Orange-Reunion.html
Code:
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Eutelsat-16A-South-East-Africa.html
No, not Orange Reunion, I'm talking about Orange Slovakia on 16E Europe B beam, see Orange Slovensko on Eutelsat 16A at 16.0°E - LyngSat

There is also an Antik Sat package, on 16E, but this uses the Europe B beam:
Code:
https://www.lyngsat.com/packages/Antik-Sat.html
Code:
http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Eutelsat-16A-Europe-B.html
Yes, that's the other one.
 
M

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,477
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
Given your location, and the satellite beams, the only reason not to get those channels would either be due to an obstruction, or out of date transponder information, on your receiver.
Try manually scanning in a few transponders.
 
G

greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
Given your location, and the satellite beams, the only reason not to get those channels would either be due to an obstruction, or out of date transponder information, on your receiver.
Try manually scanning in a few transponders.
Thanks for the reply. Since I am receiving other transponders on this same sat, I don't think there's an obstruction. I have manually scanned each of the Orange and Antik transponders as listed on Lyngsat (and confirmed on other websites) but I'm not seeing even the slightest signal from any of them. Very odd.
 
M

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,477
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
Please post full details, of the channels you are scanning in, including their signal quality readings, along with the make/model receiver you're using.

Just checked 11324 V 30000 DVB-S2 8PSK 2/3 and 10928 H 30000 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/5 and both scanned in, without any problem, and I'm in the UK.
 
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Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Messages
30,088
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
Can you get the Total TV transponders (even though they are encrypted) in the list after a scan ? 11387 H

If not you might have trouble with 8PSK reception.
 
stephan94

stephan94

Specialist Contributor
Messages
516
My Satellite Setup
1.20 Channel master ( Paris)and 1200 Laminas ( Bavaria) KU and C Band
Openbox SX6 and S3 Mini, Dr HD 15, Octagon SF 4008 and Octagon SX88and SX8 HD One, TBS 6983
My Location
Bavaria and Paris
Hello

with an antenna of 1.20m and from the north of Bavaria (it's closer to your reception than the UK) I have no problem receiving all the frequencies that interest you, only the 12605 H is weaker than the others.16°0E_2007291040_11000-12750 V.jpg16°0E_2007291049_10700-12750 H.jpg
 
G

greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
Please post full details, of the channels you are scanning in, including their signal quality readings, along with the make/model receiver you're using.
Just checked 11324 V 30000 DVB-S2 8PSK 2/3 and 10928 H 30000 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/5 and both scanned in, without any problem, and I'm in the UK.
Can you get the Total TV transponders (even though they are encrypted) in the list after a scan ? 11387 H

If not you might have trouble with 8PSK reception.
I'm not sure what is 8PSK, but perhaps that is the issue, as I am not receiving anything on 11387 H either. As the below screen shots show, I am receiving strong sigs from certain transponders, e.g., 11471 V, with channels such as 24 Kitchen and Duck TV, which matches Lyngsat, so it appears I am pointing at the correct sat. But there's no signal at all on 11387 H or on any Antik or Orange transponders, such as 11055 V (Antik) and 11324 V (Orange).

Receiver is a Ferguson Ariva 102E. It's several years old, so perhaps it does not work with modern types of transmission.
 

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G

greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
According to the specs for my receiver, it should work with 8PSK.
"
DemodulationQPSK. 8PSK
"
 
Analoguesat

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
48,211
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
There are different transmission parameters

DVB-S
DVB-S2 QPSK
DVB-S2 8PSK.

DVB-S needs the least signal to decode correctly, then DVB-S2-QPSK, then DVB-S2 8PSK needs lots more signal than the others. It may be that you just needs to tweak the lnb skew (twist), peak the alignment or replace the lnb. If none of those work you might need a bigger dish.
 
G

greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
There are different transmission parameters
DVB-S
DVB-S2 QPSK
DVB-S2 8PSK.
DVB-S needs the least signal to decode correctly, then DVB-S2-QPSK, then DVB-S2 8PSK needs lots more signal than the others. It may be that you just needs to tweak the lnb skew (twist), peak the alignment or replace the lnb. If none of those work you might need a bigger dish.
I see on Lyngsat that the transponder at 11471 V is using DVB S-2 8PSK, and I'm receiving it with a strong signal (see screenshot above in post #9), and the Antik TV transponders at 11055 V and 11094 V are using S-2 QPSK, and I'm not receiving them at all. So I guess it is not a QPSK vs. 8PSK issue.
with an antenna of 1.20m and from the north of Bavaria (it's closer to your reception than the UK) I have no problem receiving all the frequencies that interest you, only the 12605 H is weaker than the others.View attachment 131945View attachment 131946
Stephan,
Thank you for this graph, it is very interesting. You are receiving 11471 V at about the same strength as I am and the Antik and Orange transponders are just 1 or 2 db lower, except for 12605 H. I can't think of any reason why I'm not receiving any signal at all from the Antik and Orange transponders. Analoguesat may be correct that I need to adjust the LNB, but I can't easily reach the LNB and it is otherwise working fine, I'm receiving strong signals from over 3,000 channels on 5 sats. I don't really need the Antik and Orange channels but I'm curious to figure out why I'm not receiving them.
 
M

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,477
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
If you check, on lyngsat, you will see that the channel names, you've got listed are SD, Standard Definition, even though they are on a DVB-S2 8PSK transponder:
Code:
https://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-16A.html
Your picture shows that you have 32 TV channels, scanned in, are nay of them HD? And what are the signal quality readings?
 
G

greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
If you check, on lyngsat, you will see that the channel names, you've got listed are SD, Standard Definition, even though they are on a DVB-S2 8PSK transponder:
Code:
https://www.lyngsat.com/Eutelsat-16A.html
Your picture shows that you have 32 TV channels, scanned in, are nay of them HD? And what are the signal quality readings?
Yes, I am receiving HD channels on 16E and other sats, many with quality readings over 70%.
 

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M

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,477
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
Will you please post some of the channel names, transponder details, including frequency, polarity, S/R, etc and exact signal quality readings.
I seem to remember asking you this before.
Also check some FTA channels, like Aurora TV and Yu Planet TV, to check you can view any of these channels.
 
G

greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
Will you please post some of the channel names, transponder details, including frequency, polarity, S/R, etc and exact signal quality readings.
I seem to remember asking you this before.
Also check some FTA channels, like Aurora TV and Yu Planet TV, to check you can view any of these channels.
With the dish pointed at 16E, I am receiving these transponders:
11471V 30000 70%
11637H 30000 67%
12564V 3417 44%
12593V 2500 42%
12643V 27500 30%
12717H 7500 70%
12739H 2256 60%
I am able to view Aurora TV, Yu Planet, and other FTA stations (see attached).

I am also receiving the following transponders while pointed at 16E, but according to Lyngsat they are from 19E, is that possible?
10876 V 21997 63%
11303H 21997 25%
11973V 27500 63%
11421H 21997 70%
11719H 27497 65%
11759H 27497 65%
12363V 27500 65%
 

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M

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,477
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
Do you have a 3 degree Monoblock LNB?

Can you upload pictures, of your dish, and LNB?

Given your location some of those readings seem low, but until I check, tomorrow, I can't be certain.
 
G

greencajun

Member
Messages
45
My Satellite Setup
Ferguson 120E
My Location
Slovakia
Do you have a 3 degree Monoblock LNB?
Can you upload pictures, of your dish, and LNB?
Given your location some of those readings seem low, but until I check, tomorrow, I can't be certain.
It's a 1 meter dish. I don't know much about the LNB, but I don't think it is monoblock.
sk dish.jpg
 
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M

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,477
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
A monobloc is two LNB's, side by side, connected together, so only 1 wire goes to your receiver, but you can pick up two satellites. They come in various degrees, so you can have a 6 degree separation, for 13E, and 19E, for example, or 3 degree for 16E and 13E, or 16E and 19.2E.

Did you scan in any channels, from 19.2E?

Just tested 16E, on my dish, using my signal finder option, in the UK, and had differing results:

11471 V 30000 88%
11637 H 30000 90%
12564 V 3617 69% you listed 3417
12593 V 2500 50%
12643 V 27500 72%
12717 H 7500 68% less than your reported 70%
12739 H 2256 65%

The strongest signal, I found, was 11595 H 30000 DVB-S2 8PSK 5/6 which came in at 93% signal quality, and has the FTA Fashion Television Europe.

Is your dish fixed, or on a motor? I can't understand why you're getting both 16E, and 19.2E, on a fixed, offset, dish, with a single LNB.
 
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A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
675
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
I can't understand why you're getting both 16E, and 19.2E, on a fixed, offset, dish, with a single LNB.
Unless the dish is warped, maybe? But then maybe you would have problems at other satellites too.

Nonetheless: did you stringtest te dish? (= put some chords across the dishface (at various places), and check if they barely touch at the center. If so, then the dish face is flat, as it should with most offset dishes (not all).

Greetz,
A33
 
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