Nokia 9800S Problem

H

HB13DISH

Retired Mod
My Location
Middle East - Israel
Nokia 9800S receiver went crazy all of a sudden.
I am getting a bright horizontal line in the middle of the TV screen and there is a slight picture distortion.
I suspected the cables at first, disconnected the LNB cable, Scart cable, tested with another Scart cable, but the problem continues.
Now I am almost certain that the receiver's tuner might be faulty.
Would appreciate it if anybody encountered such a weird problem in the past.
Thanks.
 
I would have thought it unlikely to be the tuner, sounds more like something later in the processing chain.
 
rolfw said:
I would have thought it unlikely to be the tuner, sounds more like something later in the processing chain.
Click to expand...

Thanks rolfw. That would be a relief if it isn't the tuner.
It looks like the video output circuitry.
I need a special tool to unscrew the security screws that Nokia uses. Looked for it a long time ago and couldn't find one. May have to invent the wheel with a special DIY tool.
 
They are centre pin star screws, just looked on my 9600.
_http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=11520&doy=25m11&C=SO&U=strat15
 
rolfw said:
They are centre pin star screws, just looked on my 9600.
_http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=11520&doy=25m11&C=SO&U=strat15
Click to expand...

Thanks rolfw for the info.
I spent few hours today looking for the tool and finally got the ones for star with 6 points and centre pin screws (T8H, T10H, etc.)
When I tried it on the receiver, I couldn't open it so looked closer and the screws turned out to be a five point shape and not six point.
I don't think that the Maplin kit in the link has the right bit.
 
I need to know the EXACT name of the security screws that Nokia used in their Media Master series 9200S, 9600S, 9800S.
If any member has opened any of these boxes in the past, then please let me know the name of the screw and the tool or toolbit that can be used to unscrew them.
Thanks for your help.
 
dont know the name,never open the 9800,i need new tuner,lnb port is broken after crash from the table,does anyone have a tuner for me,of a fault 9800?
 
Turok said:
dont know the name,never open the 9800,i need new tuner,lnb port is broken after crash from the table,does anyone have a tuner for me,of a fault 9800?
Click to expand...

Hi Turok,
Sorry to read about the accident.
You will also need to open the box to replace the tuner (or maybe just solder the connector if this is possible).
So let us join forces and look for the tool, otherwise we are both stuck.
I read that it is possible to open it with a jeweller screwdriver. Tried it but gave up as I was worried to damage the screws which would make it even more difficult to unscrew them.
 
OK. After a lot of search I finally got some information about the security screws that Nokia uses in their Media Master series (4 black screws on the sides). There are others on the back panel but they are standard Torx with 6 lobe.
The screws are called Torx Plus and the tools can't be purchased without a license since they are controlled.
Here is a link to a website that sells the tool but I think that it will take a bit of convincing since I am not (and for this matter none of the members here who have any of these boxes) an authorized servicemen for the product.

http://www.lara.com/torx-plus-tr.htm

The tool ordering numbers are IPR 10 to IPR 30 and the nice table at the buttom can be very helpful. The big problem might be that Nokia's screws could be metric and have a different ordering part number than these.
Which mean that even after going through the hassle of getting a license, the tool would not be an exact fit.
 
Do a search for "Trident Security Star Bit Set" on eBay UK. Assuming they are actually the same as what you're after then no licence is required and they're metric ;)

Also, search in google for "TRX-TS". The torx tools with that code are also the same type of 5-point security torx bits.

Failing that, in the past with security screws that have a pin in the middle and which I've not had the proper tools to undo, I've been able to use a screwdriver to lever on the middle pin and snap it out (or you could alternatively use something like a dremel multitool to grind the pin off). Then just use a suitable screwdriver wedged into 2 of the points to undo the screw. Afterwards just replace with normal screws.
 
Here is another link to a tool manufacturer, but they also insist on authorization letter.
http://www.wihatools.com/700seri/716_IPR_serie.htm

So I thought it was time for brute force.
I used a jeweller screwdriver size 2.4 mm but since it didn't have a good grip, I hold it tightly with an adjustable gripping tool and luckily it gave way.

With the cover off, the inside of the box was full of dust and fluff so I just cleaned it up as delicately as possible and when I have time, I will try to sort out the original problem, which is going to be the harder part.

@ Turok:
I checked for you the tuner and I think that if you are lucky, then you don't need to replace the tuner.
The tuner is well assembled on a PCB which is held vertically inside the box and the LNB connector is soldered to the board. So I doubt if the tuner got damaged, unless the oscillator inside (if any) didn't survive the fall.
Anyway, here is some information about the tuner if you still want to pursue this route:
Tuner DF2ST2271
Nokia
0131
07182
Art No. 55 50099-02
Made in Hungary

Try to open the box as I did (you need another tool for the Trex screws at the back, but they are standard star with 6 lobes (points) and then resolder the LNB connecter to the PCB.
It might help if you can attach a photo showing the tuner section.
 
garym71 said:
Do a search for "Trident Security Star Bit Set" on eBay UK. Assuming they are actually the same as what you're after then no licence is required and they're metric ;)

Also, search in google for "TRX-TS". The torx tools with that code are also the same type of 5-point security torx bits.

Failing that, in the past with security screws that have a pin in the middle and which I've not had the proper tools to undo, I've been able to use a screwdriver to lever on the middle pin and snap it out (or you could alternatively use something like a dremel multitool to grind the pin off). Then just use a suitable screwdriver wedged into 2 of the points to undo the screw. Afterwards just replace with normal screws.
Click to expand...

Hi garym71 and thank you for your valuable input.
It is interesting to see the TRX-TS tool set and they look like the IPR series but apparently they managed to overcome the patenting issues by making a modification to the screws. They look more pointed at the 5 lobes tip than the IPR, but maybe I am mistaken.
Frankly I am not sure now if Nokia boxes use the IPR or the TS series. But looks like the TS series are of recent design and used in cars, etc. while Nokia boxes are ancient history now and it all started with the dbox followed by 9200S, 9600S and 9800S.
So I tend to think that I need the tool for the IPR series, with the need for a license.
(but since I managed to unscrew them with force, the need is just for academic knowledge)
Now that I have the screws in my hand, I can move more easily into shops without dragging the receiver with me.
It would be interesting to check if the TS series are in the shops and if they can be used instead.
Thanks again.:)
 
Personally, like you, I just whacked a flat-headed small screwdriver into my 9800S and 9850T boxes (virtually identical, one being the OnDigital box), it's annoying when they try to prevent us opening our property up to repair it when they wont due to it being out of warranty... :D
 
I finally got lucky and found the Torx 5 lobe tool bit in one of the professional tools shops, cost 6 quid and with handle 9 quid.
The guy at the shop wasn't generous with any information about the actual manufacturer and only mentioned that it was made in Germany.
So, no more messing about for me with all kind of tricks to open the Nokia boxes that I have.

Back to the original problem:
The tuner and RF modulator are OK.
Without the LNB coaxial cable and just connecting the Scart cable to the TV, I get the bright horizontal line moving up the screen.
Checked visually all the components, but nothing seem to look out of the ordinary or discoulored.
I suspect that it might be a power supply issue. An aged capacitor for example.

The Nokia 9800S box looks really impressive and the Dreambox board looks like a toy next to it.
The power supply board connects to the main board with a connector.
So, if I can get hold of an old 9800S box, I can just swap the PS boards and see if the problem vanishes.
No point of sending it to service as I can probably buy a new receiver with what they would charge me.
Any ideas about this weird problem?
 
That's a hum bar (ripple on the power supply). This gets you the moving bar across the screen, usually caused by (probably) a faulty electrolytic in the PS. As you suggest, a new PS or check the electrolytics by substitution.

Llew
 
Llew said:
That's a hum bar (ripple on the power supply). This gets you the moving bar across the screen, usually caused by (probably) a faulty electrolytic in the PS. As you suggest, a new PS or check the electrolytics by substitution.

Llew
Click to expand...

Thanks Llew for confirming that it could be the PS.
I think that it might be the 400V capacitor (it has a red High voltage warning sign on it which covers the details). I will just take the label off to identify it.
My suspicion is based on the fact that it looks like it is going to burst any minute with the top having a convex shape now (not that I have seen it few years back). Damn Nokia and their stupid security screws for not letting me open the box on a regular basis for maintenance and cleanig.
 
Hi!
so techincal says,in strore,i cant repair my tuner,coz inside the conectors are broken:(
so i need a new one--

there are so many torx outthere,that i cant tell how many,it is realy are.)
does 9800 have the same then dbox/9600
never checked,i dont like torx,the best thing,to "handel" it is a motoreized scewdiver,then replaced with normal scews,and the job is finsished:D
 
boom,and all torx,are gone forever:)
 

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Replaced capacitor C7 on the power supply board with a new one and the problem vanished.
C7 is a 47uF 400V 20% 105C with lead spacing 7.5mm H=22mm, D=20mm.
Replacement from nichicon is slightly bigger in height, but still quite away from the metallic grilled cover.
Box switched on for few hours and till now no explosion yet.
In a way I am glad that I had this problem, otherwise I may not have had the chance to open the box and get to know it better.
I also bought few components to do some alteration in order to enable Magic CAM to work with the Nokia 9800S, but that is another story for a rainy weekend.
 
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