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Old dig. EchostarDSB1000Ci2 ... absolutely dead?

nopfusch

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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#1
Hi

My now > 7 Year old dig. receiver is on strike or nearly dead.

Hi

My now > 7 Year old dig. receiver is on strike or nearly dead.

I switched the other day the receiver on and as no picture came, I saw an "Err" displayed at the receivers LCD display - an Error signal.

After a while I discovered no power for the LNBs (zero Volts at C and Ku Band and irrespective of polarisation).

I'm in electronics (but not UHF), so I opened the receiver for the 1st time.

I discovered soon that the switched mode power supply (PS) switches off.

The sequence is like that: switch mains on

the scan for a signal starts but after 2-5 seconds "Err" comes on. If you leave it, the display changes to time, like you switch the receiver with the remote off.

The time works.

As with TVs, the PS waits apparently for a feedback signal to continue with the operation. As it looks, this his signal is missing and the PS switches therefore off. Only the supply voltage for the clock remains on (separate +5V supply).

The supply to the LNBs is going via a relay and via a series transistor to the tuner. Both are in order. The transistor is controlled from a large chip, most probably the CPU (controlling processor unit) and from there is also no signal.

The relay gets a very short signal to the coil, but then the PS switches off.



What I need is a circuit diagram (schematics), or better the service manual. I bought the receiver more than 7 Years ago in Munich, during a trip to Europe.

The best source would be a web address, where I could download these.

Or a postal address. I think after 7 years, Echostar wouldn’t mind that I get a copy. Of course with a current marketed receiver, it would be another story.



Anyone having some info for me, please?

Thanks & Regards

Nopfusch



South Africa

3.6 m dish with GLOBO positioner, California Feedhorn with mech. Polarizer, C- and Ku- Band LNBs, dig. Echostar DSB1000Ci2 (but dead) and analogue receiver.



 

Llew

cerca trova...
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Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
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#2
Hi nopfusch, and welcome to the forum.

Are you absolutely certain that the fault lies in the voltage feed to the LNB supply?
A fault on any of the other supplies may be shutting down the SMPS.

You say the +5V supply to the clock is OK, by this do you mean it is supplied seperately from the SMPS? I would have thought that it comes from the main 5V supply, in which case the SMPS hasn't shut completely down, just 'idling' in standby mode, maybe because of an overload on the SMPS caused by the fault on one of the voltage lines, maybe one of the electrolytics hanging on these supplies.

Check all these capacitors by replacement - they're usually the first to investigate in a suspect power supply.

Don't have the circuit diagram, so the above is just conjecture.

Llew
 

nopfusch

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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#3
Thanks Llew

for responding.
I read now for the past hour "fault reports" in this forum. And all over electrolytics and electrolytics again. OK, will do.
Yes you're right. As there is not a sepearte PS for the clock, it must come from the PS in question, with the rest of the supply voltages (another 5V, 12V, 21 V and 30 V, as marked on the PCB of the PS), switched off.
After the surgery is completed, I'll report back.

nopfusch
 

pgh13

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#4
If its the PS that uses the Fairchild power switch IC, this circuit is fairly similar and may help as a start point.

h**p://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FS%2FFS7M0880.pdf

Peter
 

nopfusch

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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#5
Thanks Peter.

I'll check it out, although my hope of fixing it, is almost zero.



We'll see what Echostar has to say. They confirmed the receipt of my 'cry for help'.

That's what they say:

"Dear Sir,
Will respond to you shortly
We hope above information will be of service to you.


EchoStar service department
Website: <http://www.echostar-int.com/> www.echostar-int.com "


Sounds not too bad.



During the day ...

All 13 PSU electrolytics de-soldered, removed, purchased new ones and put into their locations.

No go. Then I measured all 87 electrolytics and 9 polarized tantal capacitors with a DMM in its Ohm range. All integrated, i.e. the measured resistance increased whilst the capacitors charged (with reversed measuring leads it discharged, measured resistance decreased). A faulty e.g. shorted or o/c capacitor would show a short or steady resistance, due to the parallel circuitry around them.

No luck.

Plan of action:

Circuit diagram with service manual, or repair at Echostar (expensive?) or in Korea (the PCB and the name plate says “Made in Korea”, but where?) or throw into waste bin.

Buy new receiver. Manhattan or Echostar? Those are the only ones in Europe available with polarizer output (skew) and angle stored in each channel. Or are there others?

So let’s 1st wait what the Echostar people have to say.



greetings

nopfusch




had a nice spring day today – 29 degree Celsius – no cloud in the sky
 

Llew

cerca trova...
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My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
#6
Hi nopfusch

I have to admire your thoroughness in checking all those caps - although an ESR check with the appropriate meter would have shown up any faulty ones that normal resistance checking can't (but that's academic now, as you've replaced them).

The only other thing that comes to mind is a fault in the main +5V supply, this normally feeds an opto isolater protection circuit that switches off the primary section of the SMPS, which seems to be what's happening with your receiver.

Llew
 

nopfusch

Regular Member
Messages
40
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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#7
Hi Llew,

I thought about that.

I know that protection circuit from other SMPS - via the opto coupler back to the primary side - only the ones I know (from PLC's - programmable logic controllers), that supervision/protection acts within +/- 150 milli seconds. And here it takes about <5 seconds. Never mind, I appreciate any comment any hint - I’m going to check it.



No ESR checker at hand - so I had to do it the hard way.

I'll post the result - in 2-3 days. I have to go away for a short time.



nopfusch




 

nopfusch

Regular Member
Messages
40
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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#8
Came unexpected back tonight ...

I forgot to attach last time the pic of the receiver. The rear panel is also removed. The 2 regulator ICs on the right side of the tuner: one is for 12V and one is for 5V, both OK (these are in addition to the ones in the SMPS).

Someone told me that 5 Volt regulator (next to the tuner located) is usually (?) overloaded. To check it, I inserted in series with the output pin a one Ohm resistor. During the 2 to 5 seconds of having power (on all supplies!), I measure 290 milli Volts = 290 milli Amps. No chance of an overload.

Next thing is to checkout Llew's suggestion.



nopfusch
 

nopfusch

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Messages
40
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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#9

Attachments

Llew

cerca trova...
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My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
#10
You mention previously that it has a polariser output. Is there also a 36V motor output ?

Llew
 

Llew

cerca trova...
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My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
#11
Ah, just seen your picture. Looks like a cut-down version of the SMPS in my AD3000ip, with the motor control relays etc. missing.

Llew
 

nopfusch

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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#12
No 36V output. The actuator draws when going back from the ultimate West position 3.8 Amps. Here is no provision for 36Vx3.8A=136 Watts. The polarizer's terminals can be seen at the lower right, on the PCB of the SMPS.
But for a product >7 Years old, quite advanced, I think.

nopfusch
 

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
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My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
#13
Is there a resistor hiding between the SQ2345 transformer and the large heatsink?
In mine, this is prone to overheating, burning the PC board. ( I have had to replace this resistor and associated components due to SMPS malfunction.

Just an idea...

Llew
 

nopfusch

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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#14
As I said Llew, I appreciate any suggestion and recommendation, no - no burnt components.

No components, neither the PCB show any “burn” marks, just a slight de-coloring of the PCB itself. Looking at the SMPS-PCB, no-one would guess that this receiver is >7 Years old and lets say 60% of its age in use.
That’s why I’m concerned, that there is may be still a problem within the tuner. The 2 voltage chips getting warm, but the main board shows also no heat marks, e.g. those chips got always warm.
I have not checked the output with the oscilloscope. May be the output voltage oscillates. Then they get also warm. Tomorrow 1st thing to do.
Just find below an extract of the e-mail, I’m sending as reply to the Service dept. of Echostar. They wrote, they can’t give me any schematics, but they do want to send me an EPROM (?).

After building for all supply voltages a dummy load (just to draw 50-100 m Amps or so), I connected that dummy load to the SMPS. Still no output, as I actually have expected. I know from other SMPS that some “kick-off” is required to start a SMPS. I discovered then the PCS terminal (SMPS) needs a positive signal (from the always +5V, clock supply ) and then all voltages are come ON. If any of the voltages (except the +5V for the clock) is missing or too low, the SMPS switches off. That was all tested with dummy loads.
Correction to my 1st report: after power-ON the receiver starts a 2-5 second internal test and does not start scanning.
Now in tedious work I discovered, although the supply to PCS was there, all voltages switched off just when the tuner became power, i.e. after 2-5 seconds after powering ON.
But all components in the SMPS measured statically OK. Then I saw on the Oscilloscope that the +8V breaks down (a few milli seconds) before the signal to the PCS terminal was lost. Here was a problem. Low power Transistor Q2 (D2058) in the SMPS lost its gain and could not produce the required +8V under load. The +8V feeds the +5V voltage regulator for the tuner.
This took me about 20 working hours to find out. I changed the transistor and the receiver works now again. Only the two positive voltage regulators (Q102, Q103) for +5 and +12 Volts, getting quite warm. On the +5V 289mA (dissipation: [8V-5V]x0.3A=0.9W)are drawn only. At the 12 V stabilizer chip 140 mA (dissipation: (21V-12V)x0.14A=1.26Watts). I mounted both on a common hetasink and I installed a small fan (from a PC) to keep the heat down. Are the currents +/- correct as measured?
289 mA on the +5V supply to the tuner is that in order?
140 mA on the +12V supply to the tuner is that in order?
Only all stored satellite and channel data from 18 satellites seem to be vanished. Maybe some are still there – I have not thoroughly checked all satellites/channels.
I don’t know why Echostar wouldn’t supply the schematics for a product, which is >7 Years old. And if the receiver is once really irreparable, I could only buy here a competitors product. It is therefore in Echostars interest, that I have as long as possible an Echostar 'working' at home.
So I can’t see any logic behind this. I accept, you can’t send the schematics from a current marketed product. Please re-view your decision.

So I have to watch those chips and tuner. And lets try to do some programming tomorrow. And then w'ill see if my repair was a lasting success.
Thanks Llew and Peter for your contributions

nopfusch
 

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,314
Likes
3,281
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
#15
Yes, could be some noise on the tuner supplies, but replacing the caps should have cleared that up.

If the STB is booting up but you have problems with losing channels or you are unable to store them, maybe the flash memory is corrupted (possible with the problems you have had). Eeproms do fail sometimes in Echostars.

The eeprom concerned is that marked with a label printed 'ESC1101'. I don't think you can reflash it through the CPU (Jtagging) on your Echostar, even if you could find a flash dump. I have no doubt they could supply a new eeprom for your model, but fitting it yourself may be tricky unless you have the appropriate soldering tools.

Llew
 

nopfusch

Regular Member
Messages
40
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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#16
Hi, Llew

no oscillation, but I found since i changed today the power transistor which switches (I think) between horizontal and vertical polarisation (13V vs. 18V), the 'heating' is reduced.

Aha, that's why they want to send me an EPROM. Before this big problem, I had occasionally the problem that during programming the receiver hung-up (like a PC freezes). I had to re-boot and then sometimes the newly programmed data have disappeared. But previous entered data never vanished. And I'll see tomorrow if the data I entered today are still there.

The receiver has 2 EPROMS or EEPROMS. It has a facility to upgrade the firm/ware, via a serial port. I have still the original F/W in, as I don't know what to do, if the upgrade fails (I downloaded the upgrades from Echostar's site). Thanks for the ESC1101 - info!

I could borrow a SMD soldering tool to replace the EPROM.

Let's see what they have to say ...


greetings
nopfusch
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
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A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
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#17
A pity you are not in the UK as I have one here, complete with remote. Not dead, but with software corruption, and Im not really bothered about getting it going.

Could be yours for the price of a beer, but shipping to SA would be more than the cost of a newer model from UAE.
 

nopfusch

Regular Member
Messages
40
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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#18
Thanks Channel Hopper

for the offer.

Let's see what Echostar recommends and how successful and reliable my repairs were ...

Maybe I have to come back to your offer. My daughter lives in Germany. You could send it to her - and she would pay the beer costs and the mailing. Or next Year on my trip to Sweden, maybe a detour via London (I like the city, was 3x there).

My receiver is Made in Korea. And yours?



Thanks

nopfusch


 

nopfusch

Regular Member
Messages
40
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My Satellite Setup
sAT.: EechostarDVB 1000Ci2 (no 7 tears old and faulty), one Analogue receiver threshold -3dB, even older but still in good working order, 3.6m mesh dish with positioner, California feedhorn with mech. polarizer and C- and Ku- Band LNBs.
PC1 P4 2.2GH
My Location
South Africa, Johbg., 26.2S, 28.1 E
#19
I’m puzzled - to say the least.

I noted, that with 3 exceptions, all channels I receive are vertical polarized.


Before I carry on: I have for experimenting a 1.2m dish on the ground and this faces the Panamsat 7/10. Multichoice own all the transponders and is therefore Pay TV. For the family I have that Pay TV package (2 smartcards [one for the English, one for the German bouquet, all Ku-band) and a separate 0.9m dish with a double LNB and two separate receivers. Naturally I use the smart cards also for testing of other receivers (no business, only for friends). This setup is in no way linked with my 3.6m dish which is located about 40 km away from my house.

So nearly all channels vertically polarized. That gave me the idea to check also if the receiver changes polarization, although I never used it before (receiver is usually connected to the 3.6m dish, there is a mech. polarizer). No, the output voltage was always at 12V, no matter if I selected a channel in V or H polarization. ?????

Then whilst receiving a 'vertical' channel, I turned the LNB 90 degrees cw. A still perfect picture. And from this position I rotated the LNB 180 degrees ccw. A perfect picture was received????? I repeated that with a 'horizontal' channel. Always a perfect picture?????

I have (now for 9 Years) the Satellite International Magazine, and from the last issue (August 2005), I have the channel data.

Where is my fault or wrong way of thinking?



Thanks

nopfusch