Petrol From Air - Now A Reality

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
32,672
Reaction score
7,414
Points
113
Age
57
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
A pity it's not diesel, but it's a start

_www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/exclusive-pioneering-scientists-turn-fresh-air-into-petrol-inmassive-boost-in-fight-against-energy-crisis-8217382.html

As one of the comments mentions, to harvet the existing CO2 (and I suppose water vapour) generated by power stations would reduce the overal cost by quite a margin. Then there are the bi-products from farms, human waste etc which currently end up going straight into the atmosphere.

Of course the amounts are still minute in the greater scale of things, but the fact there is a potential alternative is key to a switchover point based on the cost of extraction/processing.
 

Lazarus

Tout Rond Bon Oeuf
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
26,614
Reaction score
8,310
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
80cm Motorised.
Several small Dishes.
Much else.
My Location
North York Moors
So Petrol-Heads have to get used to the idea of becoming Air-Heads?
 

pontiend

Contibruter
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
2,861
Reaction score
3,357
Points
113
Age
78
Location
South Yorkshire
My Satellite Setup
See Signature
My Location
south yorkshire
If there is any truth in it.The oil companys will buy the patent and bury it.I remember years ago reading that someone had invented a way to make petrol using water vapour.Nothing more was heard about it.
 

wolsty

"Satellite Expert"
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
787
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Age
75
My Satellite Setup
VU+ Duo, Humax IRCI5400z, Sony Bravia KDL-32EX403, 1.1m Triax, Technomate TH-2600 DiSEqC mount, Sony BDV-E280 Home Cinema system, ancient Logik Freeview PVR.
My Location
Kernow
How much energy does it require to produce a litre of the fuel? If it's not an efficient conversion, that'll be the killer.
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
32,672
Reaction score
7,414
Points
113
Age
57
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
The problems of using (ie, extracting, transporting, refining, transporting, transporting etc to site) of fossil fuels, not to mention what remains at site and what pollution remains will be far outweighed by local production plants, sucking in local air and running off a renewable source of energy.
The cost break may come before, or after people realise that petrol isn't the best fuel out there.
 

2cvbloke

Bulbs need shelter too...
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
9,768
Reaction score
1,806
Points
113
Age
36
My Satellite Setup
No satellite stuff for the moment (aside from a 43cm minidish that was on the house already), Samsung SyncMaster T27B550 Smart TV & Monitor, and a few computers...
My Location
Near Pontop Pike, Co. Durham
Just watched a piece on the BBC website on this, and it's interesting for sure...

_http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20003704

Using Methanol (alcohol basically, so could come from leftovers from brewing beer) and something called DME (DiMethyl Ether, which in itself can be used in Diesel engines), they can make this stuff which is a man-made petrol replacement, pretty smart... :)

In the past though I have seen that it is possible to refine Biodiesel into something that can be used as a petrol replacement too, but it's disappeared as far as I'm aware, anything that sticks the middle finger up to the big oil giants always does, so we shall see whether or not this makes it or is buried in the doldrums of the oil co's alternative fuel idea buyouts...
 

pgh13

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Messages
1,679
Reaction score
409
Points
83
Age
69
My Satellite Setup
XTrend ET8000, Dr HD 15, PC/twinhan combination. 80cm dish. GBPVR with 2 DTTV cards +hauppauge Media MVP +Raspberry Pi running XBMC
My Location
Midlands UK
Just what governments have been waiting for...... a reason to slap a tax on air!
 

wolsty

"Satellite Expert"
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
787
Reaction score
4
Points
18
Age
75
My Satellite Setup
VU+ Duo, Humax IRCI5400z, Sony Bravia KDL-32EX403, 1.1m Triax, Technomate TH-2600 DiSEqC mount, Sony BDV-E280 Home Cinema system, ancient Logik Freeview PVR.
My Location
Kernow
Now if it'd been an announcement about an energy-efficient method of producing hydrogen from water and a means of safe storage, particularly for road vehicles, that would be an earth-shaker. I agree with CH petrol is not the best fuel, but so much of our economy is dependent on fossil fuel production and use, it's going to be difficult to wean us off it.
 

PaulR

Dazed and Confused Admin
Staff member
Joined
Jun 28, 2003
Messages
17,569
Reaction score
3,667
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
-----------See sig-----------
My Location
Wirral, NW UK and Vaucluse, France.
How much energy does it require to produce a litre of the fuel? If it's not an efficient conversion, that'll be the killer.
It's not very efficient at all but that's not the point. The process is designed to use the electricity that is produced at night from wind turbines that basically would just go completely to waste otherwise.
 

Piltdownpaul

No.1 Spike Milligan Fan
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
685
Points
113
Age
53
My Satellite Setup
Skybox F3,Icecrypt S3500HDCCI, Technomate TM3000D,TM5400Ci Super, Samsung HD HDD Freesat Box,60cm dish for freesat, TD88 dish on a Skybox F3 57E to 45W.
My Location
South Leicestershire (Fleckney)
Speaking as a long serving car mechanic, i'd just like to say, keep buying normal petrol cars like you have now. It keeps the roof over my head and the internet alive in front of me!
 

2cvbloke

Bulbs need shelter too...
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
9,768
Reaction score
1,806
Points
113
Age
36
My Satellite Setup
No satellite stuff for the moment (aside from a 43cm minidish that was on the house already), Samsung SyncMaster T27B550 Smart TV & Monitor, and a few computers...
My Location
Near Pontop Pike, Co. Durham
Speaking as a long serving car mechanic, i'd just like to say, keep buying normal petrol cars like you have now. It keeps the roof over my head and the internet alive in front of me!

Surely those who put veg oil or biodiesel into cars who by design can't take veg oil or biodiesel (conspiracy theory perhaps?) would keep you in work... :-rofl2
 

Piltdownpaul

No.1 Spike Milligan Fan
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
685
Points
113
Age
53
My Satellite Setup
Skybox F3,Icecrypt S3500HDCCI, Technomate TM3000D,TM5400Ci Super, Samsung HD HDD Freesat Box,60cm dish for freesat, TD88 dish on a Skybox F3 57E to 45W.
My Location
South Leicestershire (Fleckney)
I would never buy a diesel- too much to go wrong with them these days with sticking injectors ,worn fuel pumps,particulate filters and those exhaust gas recirculation valves caking up. Only have a diesel if you do long journeys all the time. Some manufacturers now will discourage you buying a diesel from new if you intend to potter about going to the shops and the school run etc. Its just not good for a diesel. Theyve now found that bacteria in the veg oil gums up your fuel lines and collects in the fuel tank...joy of joy
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
32,672
Reaction score
7,414
Points
113
Age
57
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
I would never buy a diesel- too much to go wrong with them these days with sticking injectors ,worn fuel pumps,particulate filters and those exhaust gas recirculation valves caking up. Only have a diesel if you do long journeys all the time. Some manufacturers now will discourage you buying a diesel from new if you intend to potter about going to the shops and the school run etc. Its just not good for a diesel. Theyve now found that bacteria in the veg oil gums up your fuel lines and collects in the fuel tank...joy of joy
All of which was known a long time ago.

Tanks/pipes can be kept clear with a 4% petrol mix, and the older Bosch pump designs (like my Citroen) run on up to about 50% veg oil all year round with no modifications to the fuel system.
 

Piltdownpaul

No.1 Spike Milligan Fan
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
2,010
Reaction score
685
Points
113
Age
53
My Satellite Setup
Skybox F3,Icecrypt S3500HDCCI, Technomate TM3000D,TM5400Ci Super, Samsung HD HDD Freesat Box,60cm dish for freesat, TD88 dish on a Skybox F3 57E to 45W.
My Location
South Leicestershire (Fleckney)
Got to be careful what you run through those high pressure diesel pumps these days, too easy to bugger the internals and get very big bills.
 

2cvbloke

Bulbs need shelter too...
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
9,768
Reaction score
1,806
Points
113
Age
36
My Satellite Setup
No satellite stuff for the moment (aside from a 43cm minidish that was on the house already), Samsung SyncMaster T27B550 Smart TV & Monitor, and a few computers...
My Location
Near Pontop Pike, Co. Durham
If you want a diesel engined car that works fine with straight veg oil, you need a Vauxhall fitted with an Isuzu diesel lump, those things will run on 100% veg oil, though in winter you need a mix of diesel & veg cos the veg gets a tad too thick, especially when we have a doom-sayer's "deep freeze" of -10 degrees... O-Ha

Then there are the old Mercedes diesels that they fitted in their W123 models, they'll run on pretty much anything oily... O-Ha

Basically, if it's an old Diesel engine, it'll run on stuff other than the fuel what we refer to as Diesel, cos that's how it was meant to be, running on oil that was available, rather than the stuff oil co's had left over from making petrol... :confused

Or you could just walk instead... :-rofl2
 

PaulR

Dazed and Confused Admin
Staff member
Joined
Jun 28, 2003
Messages
17,569
Reaction score
3,667
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
-----------See sig-----------
My Location
Wirral, NW UK and Vaucluse, France.
I drive a turbodiesel by choice as it gives a nicer driving experience than a petrol car.

I really like the abilty to pull from extremely low revs, almost tickover in fact. I can slip the car into top gear as soon as possible and still be able to accelerate in a meaningful manner without having to drop down a gear or two like you would have to with petrol. This is especially noticeable when joning a motorway from a slip road.

A diesel is quieter when cruising as the engine is turning at much lower revs. You may say that it's noisier at tickover, which is true, but modern turbosiesels as considerably quiter than those of your. And anyway, you spend more time driving than at tickover, don't you?

I have to temper this with a caution. The very modern turbodiesels do, indeed, have particulate filters. They are a more mature technology than they were ten years ago when they seemed to have a lifetime of only about 75,000 miles before needing expensive replacement. There's no doubt that they don't like a lot of continual low rev driving around town but most will regenerate after comparatively little driving at 40 - 50mph.

There seems to be a movement in some cars to make driving a diesl a more petrol like experience. Frankly I don't want to have to rev my car to get a move on. I just want to put my foot down at 1,000rpm and drive off.
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
32,672
Reaction score
7,414
Points
113
Age
57
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
And, just on cue

Room temperature distillation of ethanol for fuel and human consumption

Graphene oxide membranes will allow water vapor to pass through, but have been shown to be impermeable to all other liquids and gases including helium
This phenomenon has been used for further distilling of vodka to higher alcohol concentrations, in a room-temperature laboratory, without the application of heat or vacuum normally used in traditional distillation methods.
Further development and commercialization of such membranes could revolutionize the economics of biofuel production and the alcoholic beverage industry.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene
 
Top