Pole shift

lejizz

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#1
Here's sommat to worry about..
If the magnetics of the earth was to be upset, say with Toutatis on sept 29th or sommat simalar..., and the earth was to shift poles,
Would the satellites move with the earth, and would we still be alive to watch?
 

PaulR

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#2
I don't know what the Toutatis is (I thought it was an oath uttered by Asterix the Gaul) but the Earth's poles have swapped many times over the millenia.

This can be proved by looking at the polarity of magnetic materials deposited in sediment. These are "set" by the prevailing polarity as they fall and once turned into rock remain as a testament.

As far as I can remember (not using Google for this reply at all!) the cause of the change is not known but appears to be periodic occurance. How long the switch takes I can't remember. I would imagine that there would be ramifications with the Earth's Van Allen radiation belts as these are formed by the reaction of the solar wind with the magnetic field. A disruption here would allow extra radiation to reach the Earth's surface.

Time to put the Bacofoil over your head I think.

PaulR
 

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#3
A friend of mine studies astrophysics and has often commented that going by the frequency of pole switches in the past we are overdue for another one. (But it’s a very large timescale so I wouldn’t worry too much)

He also said that it wouldn’t be pleasant (to put it mildly) on earth when/if it next happens, probably for the reasons PaulR suggests, in a few weeks I might be able to get more details.
 

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#4
Most compass suppliers would close trade rather quickly, but the satellites that are already launched should not really be affected.

How reception would be achieved with all the other radiation frying us at the same time is another matter.

I did enjoy the film 'The Core', on about a month ago.
 

Channel Hopper

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#6
cheaper to rename the hemispheres
 

Lancelot

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#7
Perhaps it's a conspiracy cooked up by the compass makers
of the world as a 'Get rich quick' scheme. ;)
 

haggard

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#9
lejizz said:
Here's sommat to worry about..
If the magnetics of the earth was to be upset, say with Toutatis on sept 29th or sommat simalar..., and the earth was to shift poles,
Would the satellites move with the earth, and would we still be alive to watch?
To return to the original question, I am concerned that some invented apocolyptic event like 'toutatis' should have been tossed in to this scientific forum as if it might really happen. These things are the modern version of those poeple who used to walsk the streets with sandwich boards proclaimind 'the end of the world is nigh'. They predict events, some of them even say, as they go for a regular holiday into the Rocky mountains, that they are relocating their family for 'safety'. Of course, apocolypses would never hit the famous rockies.

If the Earth's magnetic field should shift, then an orbiting satellite would not notice the magnetic change directly. The satellite's dynamics are dictated by the strength of the Earth's gravitational field and since the Earth's mass would not change and G would not change with a mag field flip, the orbit of the satellite would not change. There might be secondary effects. A change in the Earth's magnetic field direction implies some shift in the magnetic core. This implies a change in internal angular momentum which must be compensated in order to conserve overall angular momentum. So if a huge mass of iron changed its radial postion, the Earth would have to speed up or slow down it's daily rotation and then the satellite would no longer be geostationary. It could easliy be made geostationary again by using some fuel to move to a new orbit.
 

Channel Hopper

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#10
They dont let you out much .
 

haggard

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#11
Channel Hopper said:
They dont let you out much .
Sorry m8, you have too many posts to argue with.
Also sorry to bore you, but I read the header to the section:

>Einstein's Alcove

>For those of you with an appetite for the scientific and technical, whether >it be lofty theory or more practical discussion.

and noticed that in some places, (not everywhere) there was a shortage of science fact.
 

Rod Hulls Aerial

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#12
It's obvious if there's going to be a cataclysmic Extinction Level Event (yes I watched "Deep Impact" once) It's going to happen in America, the same is to be said for Alien landings etc, they ALWAYS do, without fail.
Quite frankly we will be fine where as the Yanks will always be screwed...
 

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#13
@ haggard

Do you have at your ready disposal any 'accessible' sites that carry on this type of discussion as I'm sure that there are many here who are willing to skirt around the edges of sutch a thing ??


L
 

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#14
haggard said:
Sorry m8, you have too many posts to argue with.
Also sorry to bore you, but I read the header to the section:.
It wasnt meant as a criticism, more of a comment akin to that of the Area 51 resident head bod when met by the president in the film Independence Day.

A magnetic shift would not be a result of a change of the iron core mass, nor position of that mass, and so the Earths rotation would not be affected. What may affect the satellites however is the reason behind the magnetic reversal, as the core is more or less a molten mass, with maybe some solid element to it, the interaction of each and the change of flux between the two, would most likely cause multiple earthquakes and output of magma to the surface. The water in most of the seas would be heated and turn to vapour, making any Ku band (and higher) reception rather difficult with the existing dish sizes.
 

Lancelot

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#16
Ha ha ha ha ha O-Ha O-Ha O-Ha O-Ha O-Ha O-Ha O-Ha

Nice :)

That brought the spirit back
cheers :D
 

Channel Hopper

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#18
dynamo985 said:
i think it takes a period of time for the switch to occur, it doesnt just happen over night.
Well thats all right then ;)
 

s*t*a*r*m*a*n

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#19
Many people have been speaking of the pole shift for a number of years and many have claimed dates and times for this to occur and been wrong but the event is natural enough on earth and is now very overdue. I believe it is possible for this event to occur in a very short time frame. The following entryyou may find interesting. From an author i very much respect and have been listening to for many years

TAKEN FROM JOURNAL OF WHITLEY STRIEBER ON UNKNOWNCOUNTRY.COM
Author behind the film "The day after tomorrow"

"The magnetic poles appear to be about to shift, and this, also, is likely to be sudden. It will involve profound changes in our world, most of them unknown. It has been 750,000 years since the last time this happened, and we have little idea of what the effects will be. The reason that scientists believe that this shift is now under way is that two holes have opened up in the earth’s magnetic field, one above the arctic and the other above the Atlantic ocean. The appearance of these holes, according to the London Times on January 13, was first noticed by the Danish Orsted satellite. They mean that there are changes taking place in the earth’s core, and it is these changes that could lead to the pole shift.

Poles Ready to Flip
16-Jan-2003



There are large holes in the Earth's magnetic field over the Atlantic and the Arctic, indicating that the north and south poles may be getting ready to reverse positions in a magnetic flip. This would produce a period of chaos, when compasses no longer point north, migrating animals head in the wrong direction and satellites are burned up by solar radiation. There have already been recent cases where migrating birds ended up in strange places, far from their regular destinations. The speed of the change has surprised scientists.
In the January 13 Sunday Times of London, Jonathan Leake writes that the Danish Orsted satellite first noted the holes. The Earth's magnetic fields are generated by currents of molten iron flowing around the solid core. Sometimes giant holes form in the liquid metal and this can change or even reverse the magnetic fields above them. Andy Jackson, a specialist in geomagnetism, says, "Such flips normally happen every 500,000 years, but it has been 750,000 years since the last one," so we're overdue.

The magnetosphere protects the Earth from solar radiation that could sterilize everything on the surface. Although the magnetic field won't disappear, it may get weaker while the poles switch. The resulting surge in radiation could cause cancer, reduce crop yields and confuse migrating animals.
 

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#20
lejizz said:
Here's sommat to worry about..
If the magnetics of the earth was to be upset, say with Toutatis on sept 29th or sommat simalar..., and the earth was to shift poles,
Would the satellites move with the earth, and would we still be alive to watch?
If we were all still alive, and if all the satellites moved, would we all need to re-align our dishes to enable us to watch?
 
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