Pondering about an upgrade

[sonnetpete]

Ok, I admit that with this hobby, one is never really satisfied. I'ts the nature of the beast and I guess, it's attraction. So, although I am quite pleased with my set up I find myself drawn increasingly to the online dealers, scanning through their web pages for a better dish.

Right now, I'm thinking of an Andrews 1.2 CM, on a polar mount and run via a V Box (or similar). I realise I can no longer have this bolted to my H-H motor and have surveyed a promising site between two trees on my drive way. It should afford a good view of the arc, perhaps only slightly obstructed in mid summer when the maize grows in excess of 2 metres.

However, a couple of things worry me. I would estimate the cable run to be about 50M. Is this a feasible length? I was thinking of burying plastic drainpipe under the lawn and running two lengths of cable, leaving one as a spare. I'm also worried about my French neighbour. He is a local councillor and while I don't think planning restrictions on dish size exist here, I can't imagine he would be too pleased to have a large dish pointing at his back door, albeit that said back door is about 200 metres away across a field. I'm not too sure about painting the Andrews in a camouflage design, but camouflage netting is easily obtainable here (the French love hunting on foot with dogs although it seems to be more of an excuse to drink Calvados). Would erecting a screen of netting in front of the dish affect the signal too much, if at all?

I think undertaking this project myself might be a bit too much, so if it ever came off I probably will need help. Anyone fancy a weekend in Normandy, meals, wine and accomodation in exchange for practical and physical assisitance?

Pete

 

[Lazarus]

Let's make a hash of it and call it a full week's stay!

How well do you know the Councillor chappie? I mean, is it going to be better to ask/tell him in advance or will you just get the job done and hope he doesn't object?

 

[PaulR]

Being a part-time denizen of France with less than perfect French I have to ask, how good is your French?

It's all too easy to give the wrong impression unless you're pretty fluent. Just think of the inflection to turn a sentence negative instead ofasking a question.

 

[Lazarus]

Good point - we don't want any "My Hovercraft is full of Eels" moments, do we!

 

[sonnetpete]

Although my French is passable I have no confidence when talking. Debbie was almost fluent and I just relied on her. I've only spoken to the neighbours wife, not him and that's just twice in nine years! They're not exactly sociable, though I respect their desire for privacy. I honestly don't think he would object but perhaps I could ask him for an estimate to tile my living room floor (that's his trade) and casually mention the dish.

Tivù, not sure I can run to a week but Thursday - Tuesday? Oh, and my hovercraft is devoid of eels thankfully. My biggest error used to be mixing jeune (young) and jaune (yellow). When our oldest dog, Tzigane was just a little older than a puppy she had a tendency to jump up at people who passed us on a walk. I wanted to explain to them that she was young but kept telling people she was yellow. How to confuse the French!!

Pete

 

[Lazarus]

Tivù, not sure I can run to a week but Thursday - Tuesday?

Pete

Quelle fromage - we have got our hols for 2010 sorted already!

A few days seeing SWMBO's family in Lazio then two weeks in Puglia in June. Can't wait.

 

[wod]

i dont think the councillor person would notice a dish that big from 200 metres away as that is pretty far. also are you able to get hold of the polar mount for the dish as they was discontinued some time ago. 50metre cable run will be fine just make sure you can get quality cable in france and can you get hold of 3inch pole for the dish to mount on.

maybe a 1.2 gibertini with polar mount and 24inch actuator as that is a quality setup as a 2nd option


i'm considering a 1.2m here for upgrade but my dish is in full view of everyone so i have a problem if anyone says about it.

 

[sonnetpete]

Actually Wod, I didn't think about the problem of getting a polar mount for the Andrews. The Gib is a good alternate, though I would probably go up to 1.5M. Obtaining that and a polar mount here doesn't appear to be a problem _http://www.2galli.fr/boutique/fiche_produit.cfm?code_lg=lg_fr&ref=OP150_POLAIRE&type=30&num=21

I bought my Triax from them so I'm confident in their service. Will check on their site for cable. Must remember this is only a theoretical exercise

Pete

 

[wod]

also you will need 50metres of 4 core cable to run the 36volt motor if you have forgotten about that.

if you can afford the 1.5m gibby then get that and the polar mount and 24 or 36inch actuator plus definitely mount that beast on a 3inch diameter pole.

what satellite would you view on the dish 7west and 26e etc ?

what about getting the 1.2 gibby and putting it up where your dish is now ?

 

[sonnetpete]

Wod, I thought I might keep using USALS, which was why I intended buying a V Box, unless I'm mistaken about it's funtionality. I've seen a very substantial mount on the site I gave in an earlier post. I'm sure it would be up to the job.

Yes, I do watch both 7W and 26E on the 1M I have now, I was thinking of changing to bring in some of the Nordic beams on Thor and perhaps the German transponders on 23E. Anything else that I can't get now basically.

The 1.2m Gibby, I did wonder about a simple swap, but have my doubts that it would be stable on the H-H motor I have at present. Besides, I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with 'just' going up to that size in a Gibertini. If I can afford it now, I might as well go further. Additionally, siting the dish where I've surveyed would give me a lot more of the Western end of the arc that's presently obscured by trees. I might post a couple of shots of the site and it's view south if I get time later.

Pete

 

[sonnetpete]

Wod, having read up about the Jeager motor, I now realise that I will need the additional 50 metres of 4 core cable. Any particular spec for this?

While there was available light (and there was no score at the Newcastle match!) I took some photos. First one shows the potential site, though obviously my neatly stacked corde of wood may have to be relocated. Second one, the western end of the arc and the proximity of my neighbours house and thirdly, the eastern end of the arc.

Pete

 

[A nonymous]

I could be more than tempted to help

France is one of those place i keep finding myself every year, Usually in the langudoc region:-righton

May be able to help you this year on the way through, I can even bring my meter

Can't help on the language barrier though as you may end up getting 5 tonne of manure delivered. My French is the typical attrocious holiday French.

Last time in France i was trying to explain to the French assistant in my best French that i needed an extension lead, It ended up with her giving up telling me to tell her what i wanted in English

 

[wod]

on the 4 core cable people have used 4 core mains cable, but i bought some from sat superstore which was made for satellite motor use. maybe someone else can comment on whether the 4 core main cable is ok to use i would guess so as you needs some rated up to about 5amps

also with the vbox you cant use usals you have to use diseqc 1.2 positioning on your receiver which then goes to the vbox and is converted to pulse etc which moves the dish to the store position on your receiver.

i found the vbox works well with my vantage receiver.

so the dish will go where the wood is piled up ?

 

[sonnetpete]

yes Wod, wood will be stacked somewhere else. Probably the "motorbike" barn, so called as there is a Honda CBX 250 in there that we inherited with the house. No it doesn't work!

Understand a little more re the V Box. There is no shortage of cable here in France, and I could easily get hold of something suitable.

Nanochicken, this is only in the planning stage right now, but your offer is noted with thanks. I've yet to get manure instead of food for the animals, though from memory an extension lead is a 'prolongateur'.

Pete

 

[rolfw]

Well if it comes to fruition come mid April, I can also possibly make a detour when going to my sister's place, Cernay, Eur et Loire. 48°23'2.87"N, 1°14'54.55"E

 

[sonnetpete]

Thanks Rolf, offer duly noted

Pete

 

[Huevos]

Sonnet, just a couple of points:
1) right now Jaegar 1224 motors are out of production, maybe forever,
2) You can't use USALS with a 36 volt system; you need a v-box and diseqc 1.2 comands.
3) The four core cable needs to be pretty hefty over 50 meters. I'd use 2.5mm2 minimum for the 36 volt pair. The sensor pair on the other hand could be 0.5mm2 (or maybe less).
4) Difference between 1 metre and 1.2 dish is negligible. I would only bother if there was something in particular you know you can receive with this that you can't with the 1 metre.
5) I've got a Gibertini polar mount for the 1.25/1.5m dish and I'd steer well clear of this. Look out for a CM for a 1.2m and use that. Looks like it would be real easy to bolt to the Gibertini 1.5m back plate and would be a lot easier to adjust. There was one up for grabs in the second hand section the other day. 24" Actuator for Gibertini mount is too big and bigger actuators count in bigger steps unless you have a long arm on the polar mount to compensate (which the Gibertini does not).
6) Forget a Gibertini 1.2m on a diseqc motor even if it is an ali dish.
7) 1.2m dish at ground level doesn't look big. If it is 200 metres away the neighbour will have know idea about the size. I personally would not be asking a neighbour permission.

 

[sonnetpete]

Huevos, I take your points about the Jaegar motors, the fact that you can't use usals and that a 1.2M dish isn't suitable for a diseqc motor. The difference between a 1 and 1.2M dish is probably small, so that's why I've altered my thinking towards a Gibertini 1.5M dish, which shows a 4db increase over the 1M. Thanks for the info about the cable, the polar mount and the actuator.

I'm not sure whether a 1.5M dish would be more visible at 200metres but I wonder if it might be worth spraying it black or even a camouflage type of scheme to blend in a little more.I'm not going to go and ask his permission, they didn't even bother to offer condolences when my Debbie passed away, so I'm not about to go knocking on their door.

Wow, for something that started as a mere thought I've certainly had lots of advice and offers of help. Ok, so I'm now thinking more seriously about it. However, kitchen units, tiles, double glazing, new stairs, and a new bathroom may just take precedence!!

Pete

 

[Robbo]

I don't think it would harm trying to camouflage the dish a little, if it were a similar colour to its background, it is bound to make it blend in more from a distance of 200m.

It is pretty easy to give the dish a blow over with some matt spray paint, my dish is on it's 3rd colour now.

In dB terms there isn't much difference between a 1m and a 1.2m, but I agree, if you are marginal on any particular satellite, it could be enough to bring it in more reliably.

I have used the wf100 cable sold here for 45m without problem with a Diseqc motor, so 50m shouldn't be a problem, you could always move up to the 1.25mm diameter central core to be sure.

 

[hexah]

This is exciting stuff. :-beer

My first crazy thought would be to throw caution to the wind and get 2 more sets of T and K brackets and mount a 1.5m Gilbertini on the wall in the same place as the 1m Gilbertini. With six brackets held on with hiliti bolts it could be solid, especially if there is usually no major wind exposure. Getting it up the ladder(s) is another question (speaking from experience).

Camouflage is essential in my view. With a bit of thought this could be simple but effective.:-rub

What is the surrounding vegetation like, when viewed from the direction of the officials house? What exactly will be to the left and right of the dish? What is the ground like in front of it? What is above or in close proximity above?

With a bit of willpower the opposition can be overcome! :-argh