Pondering about an upgrade

[sonnetpete]

Thanks for the info on Leroy Merlin, sadly it's nearest branch would be a 2 hour round trip for me, not something I want to contemplate during the present cold snap.

No, I'd never contemplate eating the goats, I could never consume anything I'd put a name to and having had them for 9 years I've become rather attached to them

They don't mind the cold too much but haven't a waterproof (natural) coat so need a shelter if it rains.

Pete

 

[Telia]

However the Gibertini 1.5m is one ugly looking dish to be honest, get a Channel Master 1.8m and you will be happy, in your location out in the countryside you can have whatever dish size you want, i really don't see your problem, so get what you want.

 

[Telia]

Nanochickin : A dish fitting party sounds like good fun The barn will be plenty big enough, I'm sure the three goats, two geese and lone duck can make space for you. My only worry would be the smell, but I'm sure the animals wouldn't mind.

CH : Your offer of the CM1.2 + polar mount has got my attention. Without going into exact detail, I've compared the gain of the following: Gibertini 1M, 39.4db; CM 1.2M, 42.2db, Gibertini 1.5M, 43.3db. I've discounted the larger CM's on account of size, impact on my property and more importantly my wallet! If I had a CM, I don't think it would be worth going up to a 1.5M Gibi for the slight increase in gain (thanks Huevos for mentioning this) It's clear to me now that unless I wanted to feed chase a further increase in size would be of very limited use. If you could perhaps PM me to discuss your offer further?? FYI, I'm about 3 hours drive south of Cherbourg.

Pete

First of all there are several reasons why you should not buy a Gibertini, first it's a aluminium dish which means with time it will get warped in some way, we are talking 5 years from now, secondly you will not find a feed for the Gibertini that is matched to the dish, the one Gibertini sells is crap and actually not made by themself.

Gibertinis got f/d of 0.66, there is no feed on the market designed for 0.66, the closest is the Andrew/CM feed which is designed for f/d 0.60 so you will loose some signal with that feed, and using a LNBf is just waste in performance on that dish.

So the gain of the Gibertini is never achievable as you won't find a suitable feed, also the dish is rather flimsy as the tripod legs are very weird constructed.

I would stay away from it.

Your only choice would be a former Channel Master 180cm with matched feed on a king post mount, as you live in France you can buy all Andrew/CM parts from their distributor Allsatcom directly, i know as i have bought from them myself.

Problem being is that they have hefty shipping charges so it would be best if you could pick it up at their warehouse directly.

Honestly there is only one dish make you can buy in Europe today, Prodelin is scarce and hard to find and are equivalent to Andrew/CM dishes in performance.

For motorizing the 180cm CM dish you can buy a polarmount from Apexsat or a robot positioner from EGIS, sometimes you can find cheap EGIS motors on Ebay with controller.

 

[Huevos]

First of all there are several reasons why you should not buy a Gibertini, first it's a aluminium dish which means with time it will get warped in some way, we are talking 5 years from now, secondly you will not find a feed for the Gibertini that is matched to the dish, the one Gibertini sells is crap and actually not made by themself.

Gibertinis got f/d of 0.66, there is no feed on the market designed for 0.66, the closest is the Andrew/CM feed which is designed for f/d 0.60 so you will loose some signal with that feed, and using a LNBf is just waste in performance on that dish.

So the gain of the Gibertini is never achievable as you won't find a suitable feed, also the dish is rather flimsy as the tripod legs are very weird constructed.

Have you got any direct experience of the Gibertini because it sounds like you are just talking theory. First the LNB arm is solid as a rock. The two side arms are solely extra reenforcement and the whole setup is there just to hold an LNB that only weighs a few grams.

As for the dish distorting have you ever really seen that? I've worked on quite a few of these dishes now, some of which are quite old, and I haven't seen any distortion and they return the same C/N on Astra 2D as my brand new one.

And they certainly have much more gain than a CM 1.2m. My neighbour has a CM 1.2m and it is impossible to get that dish (with matched feed) to lock Astra 2D on any transponder, while my 1.5 is receiving 8.5+dB C/N on all vertical transponders.

And, of course the CM 1.8m is a better, higher-gain dish, but it costs more than double the price just for the dish face, weighs 3x more so needs corresponding increment in engineering of the support structure, and there is no off-the-shelf polar mount available. Don't get me wrong, I'd love one of theses dishes, but the whole Gibertini 1.5m setup (dish, mount, motor, kingpost and V-box) can be bought for less than 500€. For that money you can't even buy 70% of the CM dish face.

 

[Telia]

Have you got any direct experience of the Gibertini because it sounds like you are just talking theory. First the LNB arm is solid as a rock. The two side arms are solely extra reenforcement and the whole setup is there just to hold an LNB that only weighs a few grams..

We have installed several Gibs 1.5m at our teleport outside Stockholm and they don't stand the wind and climate here in Sweden, it's not about how heavy the LNB is, it's about the wind and tough winter climate where the dish can't hold it's shape over time, it's just not Gibs but also other cheap consumer dishes based on aluminium as the metal is too thin, eg 2 mm thick.

And they certainly have much more gain than a CM 1.2m. My neighbour has a CM 1.2m and it is impossible to get that dish (with matched feed) to lock Astra 2D on any transponder, while my 1.5 is receiving 8.5+dB C/N on all vertical transponders..

Well i have never spoken about comparison the gib 150cm to a 120cm CM dish.

And, of course the CM 1.8m is a better, higher-gain dish, but it costs more than double the price just for the dish face, weighs 3x more so needs corresponding increment in engineering of the support structure, and there is no off-the-shelf polar mount available. Don't get me wrong, I'd love one of theses dishes, but the whole Gibertini 1.5m setup (dish, mount, motor, kingpost and V-box) can be bought for less than 500€. For that money you can't even buy 70% of the CM dish face.

Well then you have bought at the wrong places, also as i said over time a Channel Master will stand over time, we have like over 10 CMs dishes here that are now at least 20 years old and counting and keeping perfect shape and no cracks.

With a Gibertini you probably have bought a couple of dishes in 20 years time, so in the end the Gibertini will be "more" expensive in the long run.

You don't really know what you are talking about as there are polarmounts available for the 180cm CM dish, but you goto the usual consumer satshop in the high street you won't find any.

 

[sonnetpete]

Guys, guys!! I didn't want to start a Gibertini V CM war, but just to clarify. My choice lies between a Gibertini 1.5 and a CM 1.2. A CM 1.8, though desirable is really out of my league financially.

I didn't expect an excerpt from the "SAS Field Guide to Camouflage", though it's very informative and kind of goes along with my line of thinking regarding the paint scheme.

I'll be posting again later but right now I haven't got time to sit and think, having two windows in the midst of replacement by one contractor and a friend laying granite setts on the kitchen floor.

Pete

 

[Huevos]

You don't really know what you are talking about as there are polarmounts available for the 180cm CM dish, but you goto the usual consumer satshop in the high street you won't find any.

CM stopped manufacturing the polar mount for the 1.8m a while ago so what are you using? Can you post a link, with price?

 

[Telia]

Yes i know they stopped making a polarmount ages ago but i have already stated what company makes polarmounts for the 180cm and 240cm Channel Master in this thread.

Actually there are two companies making polarmounts and dual axis mounts for these dishes, one is located in Germany, Apexsat, the other one is on Iceland.

 

[Telia]

Guys, guys!! I didn't want to start a Gibertini V CM war, but just to clarify. My choice lies between a Gibertini 1.5 and a CM 1.2. A CM 1.8, though desirable is really out of my league financially.

I didn't expect an excerpt from the "SAS Field Guide to Camouflage", though it's very informative and kind of goes along with my line of thinking regarding the paint scheme.

I'll be posting again later but right now I haven't got time to sit and think, having two windows in the midst of replacement by one contractor and a friend laying granite setts on the kitchen floor.

Pete

Then i would choose CM 120cm over Gibertini 150cm, reason is that Gib 150 only got about 43.4 dBi gain.

Remember that the Gib will not perform to it's full performance as you can't find a match feed for it at f/d 0.66, so the gain of 43.4 dBi is actually lower, i would say with a you will get about ~43dBi with a Gibertini.

CM polarmount for the CM 120cm is available irrespective of what some say, but i know several sources that got large stock.

 

[hexah]

The Gilbertini is designed for use with an LNBf. The designers are not incompetent morons. Even with a hypothetical mismatch giving a gain of ~43dBI, the gain is still 0.8dBi higher than the CM 1.2m and that will always make a big difference on weak signals, as Huevos has demonstrated.

The problems with the extremes of temperature in Sweden, often around a 50C swing, are well known, which is why professional (re)broadcasters use fiber dishes. Consumers use the standard powder polyester coated steel dishes that we all use, without any real problems.

This is not a problem in his part of France which is very mild (its not like Chamonix or Grenoble!) and the Gilbertini will last for decades without any real problems, just like they do in Spain.

 

[hexah]

I didn't expect an excerpt from the "SAS Field Guide to Camouflage", though it's very informative and kind of goes along with my line of thinking regarding the paint scheme.

:-argh





I forgot all about those military morons.

Having seen those wackos on TV I think the phrases 'special forces' and 'special school' seem to go together.

It actually comes from the one subject that is all about colour and pattern and that is Fine Art!

From Monet, Van Gogh, Bruegel, Da Vinci and all the rest. Yes, there are some experts in camouflage here in this house, but they have degrees in Fine Art!! Never waste your time on the military and their camouflage twaddle, they haven't a clue. They got it from artists in the first place, but quite evidently never understood it.



In fact, their cluelessness is legendary amongst artists because effective camouflage requires such a low level of knowledge of colour and pattern. It is about 14-16 year old school child level art, and yet they still make a mess of it anyway! If you think about it, it is amazing that they are allowed to go around armed to the teeth with grenades and firearms etc when they are probably as much of a danger to themselves as to the enemy.

Hence the idea that "military intelligence" is a contradiction in terms.



I will write more on the subject of camouflage, but rest assured it comes from the sane and rational world of art.

 

[sonnetpete]

This is not a problem in his part of France which is very mild

MILD?? Not right now (But your point is valid)

Pete

 

[sonnetpete]

Hi,

Thought you might appreciate where I am in relation to the "pondered upgrade"

I've decided not to go with a larger dish sited on the corner of the drive. My main concern isn't camouflage or what the neighbours might think but the logisitical side of things. I don't want to dig up the lawn just to put in cable for the dish and I am concerned that, if I site the dish between the trees I'd have to position it quite near to both the edge and corner of the drive and the lnb arm would be vunerable to cars/vans visiting here (often they reverse out back up the drive).

So, am I going to do anything? Well, I am seriously thinking of trying a 1200 Laminas dish on the Technomate motor. It's sheltered against the wall and if it does strip the gearing, I'll either buy a new motor and go back to the Gibi or try the 36V route using the pole I've already got mounted on T&K's.

Anyway, that's the plan! If the budget for the renovations and a new septic tank allows!!