Pondering about an upgrade

Robbo, thanks for the info and input. I've more or less decided that if I go for this it will be a Gibertini 1.5M.

Hexah : My neighbour is not really my opposition so to speak. He may well not care what I do.Anyway, from the end of June to early October he won't be able to see the dish from his house due to the height of the maize in the field between. However I would like to lessen it's impact. You can see from my earlier photo of the proposed site, there will be two trees to the left and right of the dish, a short patch of bare earth in front and overhead some conifer branches. There will be overhanging branches behind too.

Mounting the dish on the wall is not an option really, as I would still have a restricted Western arc due to tree growth. One of the reasons I might do this is to avoid chopping down any more trees. However satisfying that may be!!

Pete
 
is the biggest size you can go is 1.5 as if your going to be doing this maybe wait awhile and get something like a 1.8 maybe ?

painting the dish will be no problem just paint it with similar colour to the ground or the trees

with your other dish just trim the trees maybe no need to cut them down


keep a check on ebay maybe for any large dishes that come up ?
 
Sonnet, I'm just wondering what you hope to get out of this upgrade. Is there something in particular you want to receive? I found where I am I can receive most things on the 90cm dish that I can on the 1.5m. I get a handful of extra MUXes on a few satellites (for example an encrypted bouquet on 4.8E that I can't decrypt anyway) and the vertical MUXes on 2D. I suppose I could add a C-band LNB and get some more. Anyway my point is once you get to about 1 metre it's deminishing returns; going up dish sizes costs progressively more per step and yields fewer channels per step, and each additional channel cost significantly more than the last.
 
Huevos, I take your point and maybe I should stop and think some more. What bothers me is if I don't do this sometime this year the money I have available will have diminished considerably. I think that I might be frustrated by not being able to have a bigger dish then rather than now. I realise it is diminishing returns, rather as it used to be when I was keen on hi fi, you spent money up to a point where you could hear little or no discernable difference. My biggest frustration is the further ends of the arc, (e.g. Hispasat) are obscured by trees. I'm reluctant to trim the offending trees any further as they are nearer the house and provide some privacy and would naturally need trimming again from time to time.

Yes, I could put the Gibi 1M onto a ground stand and put it where I'm proposing to put a larger dish. But it just seems like something I want to do. Humour an old man!!

Pete
 
Apologies for gate-crashing the party a bit late, but I have a CM1.2 and polarmount sitting here doing not a lot, plus a smattering of French.

Carried out a few installs near the Cherbourg area as well if it helps.

I'm cheap, a couple of bottles of wine a day, bit of food fare to keep me going, and I would have thought it could be done and dusted in about a week.
 
Hmmm, CH you give me food for thought, so I'll do just that and get back to you. Talking of food I'm off to friends for a roast dinner in half an hour so you may not here from me for some time. At least until tomorrow!!!

Pete
 
No worries, I have just opened a bottle of French red here, in readiness for tomorrows travel to deepest Surrey and a roof I would rather not negotiate without suitable anti-freeze.
 
Nanochickin : A dish fitting party sounds like good fun:eek: The barn will be plenty big enough, I'm sure the three goats, two geese and lone duck can make space for you. My only worry would be the smell, but I'm sure the animals wouldn't mind. :-rofl2:-rofl2

CH : Your offer of the CM1.2 + polar mount has got my attention. Without going into exact detail, I've compared the gain of the following: Gibertini 1M, 39.4db; CM 1.2M, 42.2db, Gibertini 1.5M, 43.3db. I've discounted the larger CM's on account of size, impact on my property and more importantly my wallet! If I had a CM, I don't think it would be worth going up to a 1.5M Gibi for the slight increase in gain (thanks Huevos for mentioning this) It's clear to me now that unless I wanted to feed chase a further increase in size would be of very limited use. If you could perhaps PM me to discuss your offer further?? FYI, I'm about 3 hours drive south of Cherbourg.

Pete
 
Count me out unless you have Sheep.
 
sonnetpete said:
Nanochickin : A dish fitting party sounds like good fun:eek: The barn will be plenty big enough, I'm sure the three goats, two geese and lone duck can make space for you. My only worry would be the smell, but I'm sure the animals wouldn't mind. :-rofl2:-rofl2

lol, :-rofl2
 
sonnetpete said:
... Without going into exact detail, I've compared the gain of the following: Gibertini 1M, 39.4db; CM 1.2M, 42.2db, Gibertini 1.5M, 43.3db. I've discounted the larger CM's on account of size, impact on my property and more importantly my wallet! If I had a CM, I don't think it would be worth going up to a 1.5M Gibi for the slight increase in gain (thanks Huevos for mentioning this) It's clear to me now that unless I wanted to feed chase a further increase in size would be of very limited use.....

The 1.1dB gain is actually very significant, especially on a blue sky day.

As far as I am concerned there is only one choice and that is a 2.4m dish, which is about the limit of what could be got away with.

In your case, however, you should get the Gilbertini 1.5m or you will often find yourself sitting in front of a bare lock and asking yourself why you did not get the 1.5m. :-DOH!

Anything less than 1.5m and you will regret it.
 
It should be easy to do a basic camouflage job.

One very important point with motorized dishes is that they will often be at the ends of the arc. That means that you will have to paint the back of the dish if it is light coloured, as it will be clearly seen if viewing from the west or east.

You will also have to paint the mount to make it less visible when the dish is at the ends of the arc. You should Hammerite the mount anyway to protect it (as I have done with my big dish), say Highland Green from the Garden Metal range, or Dark Green from the standard range.

Don't forget to paint the feed arms either, as they will be exposed and will flash in the sun, drawing attention to the dish, especially when it is moving. Many people ruin perfectly good camouflage by leaving the feed arms silver so they glint in the sun.


The fact that the house is 200m away and is actually on a lower level helps a lot, as he would have to look up to see it. That means it wouldn't be in his natural line of sight when in his garden, or when going to the car, etc. This makes life easier. It will be more visible from the first floor windows but the distance and potential shade from the trees will help here.

As the dish faces south, it is facing into the arc of the sun all day, which is just about the worst situation for camouflaging anything!

This is actually one of the advantages of a dish farm, you can put them inches from the ground and often behind bushes or ornamental grasses. But we cannot do without the full arc! That said, if you want to get one of the lower satellites on the arc permanently, then consider a perforated 'mesh' dish ground mounted just behind one of the trees, and painted to be unobtrusive.


When you consider the background, foreground, and slight shade at some angles of the sun, then the colour will have to be averaged to account for very bright sun in summer and the lack of sun in winter, and for low and weak sun in winter.

The best single colour would be a mid brown. The Plasti-kote spray Chocolate Matt should do it. Remember that there is very little green at ground level, so something like Hunter Green would stick out like a sore thumb. The brown should harmonize with the tree trunks, the drive way, the space behind the dish, and the shadows (which will not be deep black due to the direction of the sun and reflected light from the lighter coloured objects around the dish).

If you are going to keep all that drying wood, which would be a convenient wind break, Chocolate Matt would be harmonious with the wood behind and with the maize in front.

This may seem a lot, but it is easier than the 3 to 5 colour version that might be used if there was a lot of greenery at ground level. It would depend on the greenery though, sometimes a simple pattern could be used.

I think that the one solid colour may be fine here. When it is up and has been painted you could look at it from a distance and decide if it needs a pattern applied to make it fade further into the surroundings. This would probably involve using a brush and e.g. Palsti-kote fast dry enamel Flat Black. It would need to be in place to decide what pattern would be best.

Chocolate Matt would also be a good compromise for the back. Cappuccino Stain is a possibility if you remove the wood and want a lighter brown colour so the area does not seem so dark. You might decide that you prefer Everglade Satin green or Dusty Jade Matt or the brighter April Green if you can see the back from the house and prefer green to brown. Green is a more cheerful colour, especially in winter.

There is often no need to cover the back totally, you can spray at a distance which means it covers more area with dots, and some of the dish colour will remain as small dots. If you step back 15 yards you will no longer see the dots of original dish colour, the new colour will appear solid. This can save money on paint. :) It doesn't really work on bright white dishes, sadly, so in that case you have to paint it properly.

Avoid gloss paint. Satin should be fine as dishes have a satin powder polyester coat to protect them from the elements and airborne contaminants. The exception is the back of the dish and the mount, if they are mostly in shadow.


You might consider planting a few pollarded mini trees or perhaps some small evergreen bushes, the same height as the maize, right in front of the mans house when looking from the dish. These do not have to be touching like a wall. They can be a few feet apart because the distance and angle of view means they will appear to be close together when viewed from their house, and the brown colour of the dish will make it appear shadowy, if it can be clearly seen at all. :cool:
 
sonnetpete said:
..... this is only in the planning stage right now, but your offer is noted with thanks. I've yet to get manure instead of food for the animals, though from memory an extension lead is a 'prolongateur'.


The most famous 'prolongateur' available is Viagra. :-rofl2


What have you been feeding those animals?!

:-omg

If you come across any young ladies saying something about 'd'unne pippe', just say 'Oui' and have cash to hand.


:-rofl2 :-rofl2 :-rofl2
 
Perhaps you would be better off spending the money for a new toilet on language lessons.


If you went to your local pet shop and asked for "un preservatif pour le mouton, vous plait", hoping to get a dog style mac to keep the rain off your goat, you may find yourself making an 80 mile round trip to a new pet shop.


:-rofl2
 
A potential problem of mini trees or bushes is that they may need a bit of looking after as they establish themselves.

If you have some spare top soil handy (or buy some in) you could make a small bank or two, facing the house, each a few yards long and about the height of the fence.

Then plant them with tall grasses.

That should be maintainance free.

If they have to be cut back once a year, you can do it when the maize is at full height.

:)
 
sonnetpete said:
I've compared the gain of the following: Gibertini 1M, 39.4db; CM 1.2M, 42.2db, Gibertini 1.5M, 43.3db. I've discounted the larger CM's on account of size, impact on my property and more importantly my wallet! If I had a CM, I don't think it would be worth going up to a 1.5M Gibi for the slight increase in gain (thanks Huevos for mentioning this)
Actually I was saying the opposite. A jump from 1m to 1.2m just isn't worth it. It's quite a bit of money for a small step and the cost of the bigger dish is pretty much the same. Also your gain figures are wrong, probably because they are for gain at differing frequencies. The true dB gain figure for a 1.2m dish (relative to a 1m dish at any given frequency) is 1.58dB, whereas a 1.5m dish is 3.52dB. The step from 1.2 to 1.5 is bigger than from 1m to 1.2m, not smaller as your figures suggest. Also the 1.5m is going to be a better starter for C-band.

Relative dB = 10*log10(P2/P1)
P1 = small dish width squared
P2 = large dish width squared

The point of my other post was do you know what beams you want to receive that you can't with your current setup and are these less than 1.5dB from your current receivable level. If not going up in dish size is not going to gain you anything.
 
Ok, Hexah and Huevos, thanks for all the info on camouflage of, and calculating gain of, satellite dishes. I need a breather to look at all of this and tomorrow I have a stepdaughter returning to the UK and two builders on site here to deal with, so my input may be lacking for a short while.

Hexah, I apologize if I have confused people in my earlier post re manure and animals, as I was in a rush to finish. However, I do know that a 'preservativ' is not something for keeping rain off, you would usually purchase a pack from the machine handily situated outside your local pharmacy. Or indeed on the supermarket aisle between razor blades and Elastoplasts. By the way, 'mouton' is the word for sheeps meat i.e. mutton. Normally sheep are 'brebis' and goats are 'chevre' or in my case 'chevre nains' as they are pygmy goats.

Pete
 
:eek: at least camouflaging the dish is easier than the language :eek:


I looked up the pygmy goats on the web, having never heard of them, and they seem more like pets than anything else. I hope you are not intending to eat them! :eek:


I see Leroy Merlin have 'peinture en aérosol chocolat brillant' by Technopro so there should be no problems on that front.


:-beer
 
Actually, it is not a mac the goats need, it is a smaller version of the fleece blankets that horses wear in winter.
 
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