Advice Needed Question to technomate tm5402 m3 owners - max channel limit?

jeallen01

jeallen01

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This afternoon, I seem to have run into a "funny" issue with the above (possibly)!

Having around 3250 channels already found and saved, I was trying to scan 53E (Express AM6) with a Blindscan - it found a lot of channels from 52E (predictable!) and one group on 12595 MHz Vertical which was definitely on 53E.

OTOH, on the 1st Blindscan attempt, many of those did not then show up in the list for that sat - so I deleted all those found and tried again by restricted the scan to around 12580 to 12600, and that again found those on 12595V, and I was then able to view and definitely confirm most of those. OTOH2, those channels appeared to show they were actually on 12606MHz, but neither 53E nor 52E or 52.5 (Yamal) are listed (Lyngsat & KingofSat) as broadcasting on that frequency!

However, I then went to channels on 52E and viewed those - but then tried to go back to those on 12595E on 53E, but they were blank!

I can't explain what happened, although I suspect that this is some sort of total channel number limits problem - but can anyone shed some light on this "issue"??
 
william-1

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OP Gibertini 100 XP+ Inverto Black Ultra 0.2
Superior Dark Motor (160° max)
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Raven 88cm Mesh Dish +TM-0.1
Stab100 H to H (120° max)
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The TM5402HD M3 has a channel limit of 10,000 channels & 999 transponders.
I suspect that you have exceeded the number of transponders as it is very easy to do due to errors in the software when you use the Blind Scan,
Last time I checked the data base after a few blind scans over several days I found the transponder number had been exceeded as the receiver will add the entire spectrum 10.7 to 12.75 on 16 east where 11700 to 12500 is not in use,
42 east ect all the East beam transponders with an 80cm dish :eek: plus non existant transponders on all the other satellites :(
I did point out this software problem to Technomate several years ago but they chose to stick their heads in a bucket of sand,

I do not use this receiver much these days due to these software errors that could have easily be corrected,
I find the TM6902HD a far more reliable receiver.
 
william-1

william-1

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My Satellite Setup
OP Gibertini 100 XP+ Inverto Black Ultra 0.2
Superior Dark Motor (160° max)
(50 east to 45 west)
TM6902HD (A/B switch) Amiko A4K

Raven 88cm Mesh Dish +TM-0.1
Stab100 H to H (120° max)
(53 east to 45 west)
Octagon SX88+ (A/B switch), TM5302HD

45cm dish SpiderboxHD9000 28E
My Location
Epping Forest Essex
You can load my latest channel list that was compiled on a TM5402HD M1 & update the transponders manually from flysasat that I & a few other enthusiasts keep updated,


 
jeallen01

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@william-1

Many thanks for both posts, and I suspect that the transponder limit is the issue, given the 10,000 channel limit (which what I seemed to remember that it is).

And, w.r.t. your channel list, is that the total channel list or just the strongest channels list?

BTW: w.r.t. the 6902HD, I've looked at getting one of those but can't find one "dead cheap" locally so far:rolleyes:.
 
william-1

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Location
Epping Forest
My Satellite Setup
OP Gibertini 100 XP+ Inverto Black Ultra 0.2
Superior Dark Motor (160° max)
(50 east to 45 west)
TM6902HD (A/B switch) Amiko A4K

Raven 88cm Mesh Dish +TM-0.1
Stab100 H to H (120° max)
(53 east to 45 west)
Octagon SX88+ (A/B switch), TM5302HD

45cm dish SpiderboxHD9000 28E
My Location
Epping Forest Essex
@william-1

Many thanks for both posts, and I suspect that the transponder limit is the issue, given the 10,000 channel limit (which what I seemed to remember that it is).

And, w.r.t. your channel list, is that the total channel list or just the strongest channels list?

BTW: w.r.t. the 6902HD, I've looked at getting one of those but can't find one "dead cheap" locally so far:rolleyes:.

My channel list covers All transponders updated 53 east to 34.5 west for June 14th 2019

I do have a strongest transponders list here post #73 Strongest transponders - SatsUK
 
jeallen01

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@william-1

Many thanks - I'll take a look at that tomorrow :D
 
jeallen01

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Good morning

Loaded up that list and all seems well, although I do appear to have some backlash in the motor as sat location repeatability could be better - will aim to adjust that soon.#

Many thanks again
 
Channel Hopper

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It's not backlash
 
jeallen01

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It's not backlash
Maybe "not" but I could only get 53E if I drove the dish there from around Berlinsat at 51.5E - if I tried from further East than 53E (had been trying to see if there was on 54.9E - but nothing) then it wouldn't find that sat.

There was certainly some slight "play" when I then set the dish to 30W (so that I could actually get access to the side of the motor mount that has the adjuster!) because I could make the motor arm move very slightly from side to side by manually rocking the dish. Very slightly adjusted the hex socket to remove that - but not enough to "lock" the mechanism up.

OTOH, still have the same issue now - and not just with 53E but also 52E! - maybe this motor, which is the older of the 2 Superior Dark Motors, just can't now handle the extra load of the Gibby due to age-related wear?

OTOH2: from this location at 0.41W, the angular difference between those sats is very, very small and so very slight motors errors do seem to make a significant difference to accurately locking onto them, especially with receivers where you can only set the azimuth to 0.1 deg under USALS (as opposed to some others where you can set it to 0.01 deg).
 
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Channel Hopper

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Maybe "not" but I could only get 53E if I drove the dish there from around Berlinsat at 51.5E - if I tried from further East than 53E (had been trying to see if there was on 54.9E - but nothing) then it wouldn't find that sat.

There was certainly some slight "play" when I then set the dish to 30W (so that I could actually get access to the side of the motor mount that has the adjuster!) because I could make the motor arm move very slightly from side to side by manually rocking the dish. Very slightly adjusted the hex socket to remove that - but not enough to "lock" the mechanism up.

OTOH, still have the same issue now - and not just with 53E but also 52E! - maybe this motor, which is the older of the 2 Superior Dark Motors, just can't now handle the extra load of the Gibby due to age-related wear?

OTOH2: from this location at 0.41W, the angular difference between those sats is very, very small and so very slight motors errors do seem to make a significant difference to accurately locking onto them, especially with receivers where you can only set the azimuth to 0.1 deg under USALS (as opposed to some others where you can set it to 0.01 deg).
Weight of the new dish could be a factor, though I would suspect it is more the metal components of the motor clamp between where it bites onto the scaffold pole, and where it is bolted to the gearbox.

I did suggest switching on the autotune/focus facility in the receiver menu a while ago, have you tried that ?
 
jeallen01

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Weight of the new dish could be a factor, though I would suspect it is more the metal components of the motor clamp between where it bites onto the scaffold pole, and where it is bolted to the gearbox.
Thanks and a good point about the clamp bolts: I went down there this morning and progressively and evenly tightened up the nuts on the bolts holding the motor to the scaffold pole - surprisingly each took about 2-3 full turns or so before it became really "tight" again (any tighter seemed to risk stretching/snapping them, according to my "calibrated" arm); the bolts holding the dish to the motor arm were also not as tight as they could have been, so tightened them up as well.

Now seems to be tracking OK at the moment, and certainly went from 30W to lock onto a channel on 53E with little problem.OTOH, I have had to slightly adjust some of the sat azimuths in the menus because the nominal azimuth setting seems to correct at 30W, but as the dish then scans across the arc I've had to progressively add a tiny amount of "extra E" so that by the time it reaches 53E the max signal is at 53.7 (and, No, I haven't changed my nominal location longitude offset setting from what was concluded a few weeks ago because the "shift" is not consistent across the arc).

I did suggest switching on the autotune/focus facility in the receiver menu a while ago, have you tried that ?
Don't remember that, but not as yet as that could disguise other issues (as above/before).

Anyway, thanks to @william-1, the apparent channel limit issue (which was actually the transponder limit issue) is now resolved, and thanks to @Channel Hopper it seems that the tracking/"approach" issue might well also be resolved.
 
Channel Hopper

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Tightening up the bolts does not fix the 'cheese quotient' of the metal itself, but if it helps then fine.

You will see that the clamp and the teeth will have distorted slightly already (bowing around the rear of the scaffold pole), and the dish weight will cause further movement as the months go by.

None of the H to H mounts out there of this type of design are better btw, despite the words of manufacturers and those claiming importer/sole distributor status. Geotrack did provide the option at some point of a third clamp behind their larger mounts (you will also see Triax and Orbital have three clamping positions on their dish elevation bracketry) , to enable a better tightening up sequence but I don't think it was ever standardised.
 
jeallen01

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@Channel Hopper

Yup, I agree about the likely "cheese quotient" of the metal clamp (although the teeth on this one do seem to be OK). OTOH, there were signs that the rectangular-ended U-bolts holding the clamp to the post were themselves begining to bend, so that's reason why I stopped tighening the nuts when I did ! (Maybe conventional "round-ended" U-bolts with the correct radius might be more appropriate?)

As for a triple-clamp approach, I'll take a look to see if I can rig up some extra external support to the motor - otherwise a 3-monthly routine maintainance approach to ensure that nothing catastrophic likely to happen.:rolleyes:
 
jeallen01

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PS: the parts of the main pole clamps that are compressed by the nuts are the main likely issue because they "bulge" as the nuts are tightened - but I think I may have a "partial" solution that might work to prevent that and are fairly simple to install. Have ordered some parts and will report again next week when they have arrived and been tried.
 
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william-1

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My Satellite Setup
OP Gibertini 100 XP+ Inverto Black Ultra 0.2
Superior Dark Motor (160° max)
(50 east to 45 west)
TM6902HD (A/B switch) Amiko A4K

Raven 88cm Mesh Dish +TM-0.1
Stab100 H to H (120° max)
(53 east to 45 west)
Octagon SX88+ (A/B switch), TM5302HD

45cm dish SpiderboxHD9000 28E
My Location
Epping Forest Essex
My 88cm Raven Mesh performs way above most other dishes of this size,
I have found that just one central clamp on the motor spigot gives me much better signals than two offset clamps on the motor spigot.
So it looks like too many clamps distort the parabolic shape of this dish.
 
jeallen01

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@william-1

That could be true for "small & light" dishes like the mesh version of the Raven, but - from what I saw this morning with the much heavier 1.2m Gibby - a significant issue could be the clamps on the main pole for the motor (rather than the clamps on the motor spigot/dish arm) where there is noticeable, but not yet significant, bulging. Thus, that's the area on which I am concentrating ATM because the Gibby dish mount on the spigot/motor arm is pretty substantial.
 
jeallen01

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Parts for the hopefully "partial solution" arrived this morning.

The concept was to "beef up" the existing clamps that hold the motor bracket to the pole, and thus to stop them distorting any further with the largish dish. I'm now only half-way through the job, but I think the following should give you an idea of what I'm doing as something similar may of use to others.

Firstly I bought 4x of these "Roof Box Square U Bolts" and the size type chosen the "UBS 120A" which is 120mm wide with the threaded sections 60mm - the idea being (as you will see) that these should reach right across the width of the existing clamps and have threaded portions just long enough to reach across the height of those clamps.

They came with flat plates and nuts (although not nylocs in this case!) but I needed 4 "sets" to create 2 auxilliary clamps because each of those uses 2 of the plates. I then modded the plates to fit around the curve of the pole - a long job with the bench grinder as I have a very limited selection of workshop tools!

First attempt at trying to fit the 1st auxilliary clamp was unsuccessful as it kept slipping off the original clamp because the lower plate swivelled - so I added some large nuts to keep the plate level and then locked it in place with a few washers and another nut on each leg.

Was then able to get that to locate fairly firmly over the original clamp - it won't completely prevent the latter from distorting further but should hopefully make it less likely! Only done the top original clamp ATM - work on the lower one will follow in a few days.

Ideally this sort of work should have been done at the time of 1st installation of the motor on the pole as then the auxilliary clamps would have fitted more snuggly against the original ones and hopefully prevented/reduced the distortion that has already occurred.

Oh and YES, I'm quite sure that the more mechanically able members with decent workshop facilities could do far better than my amateurish first attempt - and this might give them an incentive to do just that! :D

PS: A good improvement would probably be to drill a small hole right through the centre of the top plate, the original clamp and the lower plate and put a bolt through that to keep all three parts locked together, instead of the plates themselves tending to bow (as they have).
 

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jeallen01

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Now (roughly!) modded and fitted 2nd clamp below the 1st one - then added an old G-clamp I had laying around to reduce the bowing of the upper plate thereof, which now sits pretty tightly along the top of the lower pole clamp and thus that can't really distort any further.

A similar G-clamp on the upper would probably help a bit as well, but that would cost "money" (those clamps are surprisingly expensive nowadays - even used!).

However, if someone can come up with a more "elegant" solution, as is almost certainly the case, then please do show me/us, and I could be a "ready customer" if the "price is right" :D
 

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Channel Hopper

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However, if someone can come up with a more "elegant" solution, as is almost certainly the case, then please do show me/us, and I could be a "ready customer" if the "price is right" :D
The toothed clamps from the pole assembly of an early Triax dish (or similar) should be made be of better material and might be a straight swop.

I've got some clamps from an old horizon to horizon mount here, with substantial teeth on the two clamps. but these would need redrilling to accept the 3" between the clamp threaded section
 
jeallen01

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@Channel Hopper

Thanks, and, as I said, it was likely that there would be a more "elegant" solution to the problem, and that could be "it", but in a limited way because of the likely "shortage" of suitable "donor" clamps - and, of course, one needs the right kit to redrill the holes (that might not be easy, especially if the redrilling effectively involves drilling very close to/into the existing holes).
 
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