Advice Needed Receivers with the lowest Symbol Rate?

MCelliotG

MCelliotG

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715
My Satellite Setup
TBS 5925, Mut@nt HD51, EDISION OSMINI, MABO 130X144, DRAGONSAT DS3000 LED MOTOR, INVERTO BLACK ULTRA TWIN LNB
My Location
Thessaloniki, Greece
The IF frequency is unrelated to Symbol Rate.
If someone has managed to tune to the 25.5E amateur band with TBS5520 and an unmodified LNB, then probably the Silabs tuners on E2 receivers will too.

BTW, I made a low SR test with the Availink tuner of my OSmio4K. I tuned to the Polish radios on 39E on 11479H SR1000 via the Satfinder. The frequency is tuned with no problem (just a slight delay which is normal in this case). Once I input SR 999 which in any other tuner would also tune the frequency the signal is completely gone.
This is to prove beyond any doubt that the SR1000 limitation is simply defined in the firmware and not the hardware of the tuner. It should be reported to Edision immediately.
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

Sleepy Hollow
Messages
2,303
My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
The IF frequency is unrelated to Symbol Rate.
If someone has managed to tune to the 25.5E amateur band with TBS5520 and an unmodified LNB, then probably the Silabs tuners on E2 receivers will too.

BTW, I made a low SR test with the Availink tuner of my OSmio4K. I tuned to the Polish radios on 39E on 11479H SR1000 via the Satfinder. The frequency is tuned with no problem (just a slight delay which is normal in this case). Once I input SR 999 which in any other tuner would also tune the frequency the signal is completely gone.
This is to prove beyond any doubt that the SR1000 limitation is simply defined in the firmware and not the hardware of the tuner. It should be reported to Edision immediately.
I know SR is unrelated, but it would be nice that a tuner can tune outside of domestic sat bands and capable of resolving low SR's as well.
Some must be able to, is there a limit in E2?
 
MCelliotG

MCelliotG

Specialist Contributor
Messages
715
My Satellite Setup
TBS 5925, Mut@nt HD51, EDISION OSMINI, MABO 130X144, DRAGONSAT DS3000 LED MOTOR, INVERTO BLACK ULTRA TWIN LNB
My Location
Thessaloniki, Greece
I don't think so, once the tuner is capable, this band should be receivable.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
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I am currently running a very cheap (ie, free from a skip) LNB for my tests with the SF8008. I'm almost certain it is a DRO type but those with knowledge of the make could correct this. I have been pleasantly surprised the system on the roof has been giving excellent low s/r response without more playing about.

Since the skip retrieval liberated a boom arm with 9 degree spacer, I have spare one of the same type and if I am feeling better will have a go tomorrow to twist a small screw inside to see if it will bring in the Es'Hail stuff without complaint.20190417_115939.jpg
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

Sleepy Hollow
Messages
2,303
My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
I am currently running a very cheap (ie, free from a skip) LNB for my tests with the SF8008. I'm almost certain it is a DRO type but those with knowledge of the make could correct this. I have been pleasantly surprised the system on the roof has been giving excellent low s/r response without more playing about.

Since the skip retrieval liberated a boom arm with 9 degree spacer, I have spare one of the same type and if I am feeling better will have a go tomorrow to twist a small screw inside to see if it will bring in the Es'Hail stuff without complaint.View attachment 124024
"Made for England" :-rofl2
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
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I cannot find that make/model anywhere online, but from the serial number - and condition - I assume its around nine years old.
 
MCelliotG

MCelliotG

Specialist Contributor
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715
My Satellite Setup
TBS 5925, Mut@nt HD51, EDISION OSMINI, MABO 130X144, DRAGONSAT DS3000 LED MOTOR, INVERTO BLACK ULTRA TWIN LNB
My Location
Thessaloniki, Greece
The question is how we could make this work with an unmodified LNB.
For instance what frequency do you input to get the transmissions, their actual or a modified one?
 
Fisty McB

Fisty McB

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Currently under redevelopment.
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County Tyrone, N. Ireland
I wonder if someone might still have an old Global ADX plus lying around somewhere? Might do the trick on receivers whose tuner doesn't go below 950MHz.
 
Channel Hopper

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UK South
The question is how we could make this work with an unmodified LNB.
For instance what frequency do you input to get the transmissions, their actual or a modified one?

The user interface calculation is a simple one: local oscillator + IF = downink frequency, therefore there are two options. Adjust the local oscillator, or play with the IF, the second option is strictly within the realm of the receiver software developing team

Even with the other LO options within the menus of the receivers I have to hand (universal, 10750, 5150 or 11300), the lowest available incoming frequency that could be received without playing around with the LNB internals is 950MHz.

I am guessing here, but potentially adding one further LO within the receiver's LNB setup menu, 10250MHz (with 22kHz tone disabled) might force the receiver to start any seach for channels 500MHz below 10700MHz, but feedback from the tuner/demod section may throw up a 'does not compute' error.

The Elanvision receiver used by the family does have the option of adding custom LOs but only within the second section of a dual LNB setup, the first being fixed at 9750, which automatically disables the 22kHz tone for a universal installed outside. To prevent the receiver having a conflict with the two LOs, I woul set the first to a completely different band, ie 5150MHz and use just the second for checking the amateur band.

I can't remember offhand what the lowest frequency is from Es'Hail but 10450MHz appears in documentation with 10495 MHz DVB broadcasts mentioned on various sites with an 8MHz transponder, forcing the onscreen LO down 300MHz to 10050 is all that is required to kick things off.

The avoided - issue is the upper band is then locked to horizontal only (by virtue of older dual band LNBs using 18V to access the higher frequencies), but this is perfect for the Es'Hail2 payload.

You'll thank me in the morning20190418_084244.jpg20190418_092118.jpg20190418_110921.jpg20190418_112518.jpg20190418_112518.jpg
 
Last edited:
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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For those with a better receiver than the Elanvision here is the sort of menu to play with, and the parameters I would set.20190418_114827.jpg
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

Sleepy Hollow
Messages
2,303
My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
For those with a better receiver than the Elanvision here is the sort of menu to play with, and the parameters I would set.View attachment 124029
Tried this on my Mutant a while back but wouldn't have any of it. So either the software or the tuner is limiting it tuning below 950MHz
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
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27,517
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK South
Others on here are saying that a 1.2m is about the smallest dish you can get away with (that plus a very stablle LN:cool:.

Having just powered down the SF8008 and tried again, the blind scan is working, and in running up the transponder search with the modified Local oscillator settings I have a number of results (at the correct lower frequencies according to Lyngsat) on a Hispasat search, so at least the set up menus are doing the correct calculations for frequency.20190418_135555.jpg
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

Sleepy Hollow
Messages
2,303
My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
Others on here are saying that a 1.2m is about the smallest dish you can get away with (that plus a very stablle LN:cool:.

Having just powered down the SF8008 and tried again, the blind scan is working, and in running up the transponder search with the modified Local oscillator settings I have a number of results (at the correct lower frequencies according to Lyngsat) on a Hispasat search, so at least the set up menus are doing the correct calculations for frequency.View attachment 124031
Some are using Zone2 dishes with success.
 
jeallen01

jeallen01

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See Signature
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Somewhere in England (possibly?)!
I wonder if someone might still have an old Global ADX plus lying around somewhere? Might do the trick on receivers whose tuner doesn't go below 950MHz.
Threw my old one out a couple of years ago - but there's one on ebay ATM if anyone wants to try with it.
 
Analoguesat

Analoguesat

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Scottish Borders
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TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
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Scottish Borders
Others on here are saying that a 1.2m is about the smallest dish you can get away with (that plus a very stablle LN:cool:.
At least one person has had it working holding an lnb aimed at 26E & no dish! :D
 
Fisty McB

Fisty McB

Member
Messages
258
My Satellite Setup
Currently under redevelopment.
My Location
County Tyrone, N. Ireland
Threw my old one out a couple of years ago - but there's one on ebay ATM if anyone wants to try with it.
Been following that eBay auction. It ended up being sold for £50! :-wow

Not bad for something likely around 25 years old that Sky subscribers could purchase from them for a tenner back in 1995/96!
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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How much ??????
 
scopus

scopus

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Primesat/Famaval 1.8 PF C/ku/Ka, Octagon SX8HD1, SX88, Openbox S3 Mini HD-V8S Freesat V7 HD-V8 Finder, Amiko A4K Combo, Satlook Colour HD Spectrum, Sansui A909 Amp and BOSE Acoustimass speakers for the audio.
My Location
Staffs UK
Been following that eBay auction. It ended up being sold for £50! :-wow

Not bad for something likely around 25 years old that Sky subscribers could purchase from them for a tenner back in 1995/96!
Have to dig mine out then, knowing my luck, mine would sell for 99p!
 
Fisty McB

Fisty McB

Member
Messages
258
My Satellite Setup
Currently under redevelopment.
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County Tyrone, N. Ireland
Have to dig mine out then, knowing my luck, mine would sell for 99p!
I'd kept a curious eye on it, if there was little interest I might have gone to around £7 or £8 of a bid once postage was factored in. Got an alert at around 11 o'clock this morning that the bidding had went up to over £20 and that was the trigger for me to say "f*ck that!" Looks like there were three keen bidders with one deciding going above £26 wasn't worth it and the other two being very keen to the point of being will to pay at least £50 for it. As Fr. Dougal Maguire would say, "It's mad Ted!" I'd hazard a guess that the seller doesn't understand the fuss and can't believe what they got for it.
 
RustySpoons

RustySpoons

Sleepy Hollow
Messages
2,303
My Satellite Setup
50E - 30W
2x CM 1.2m Polar Mount/Jack
65E- 65W
Gibertini 1m OP100 - STAB HH100 - Inverto Black Ultra 0.2 Twin
Mutant HD51
Edision Primo IP S2
Dreambox DM800HD
Venton Unibox HD2
Sony Bravia 55" 4K
My Location
South Wales
I'm really curious about the E2 based boxes, looking at lots of datasheets and schematics for various NIMS, Demods, Tuners etc a lot will go well outside the normal domestic IF range.

I wonder how easy it would be to change this software limitation, surely it's something inside E2 or the tuner drivers that could be modified?
 
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