Receiving Astra 2D and Astra 1 with 1 Dish

[Tom34]

Thanks for that most interesting information, Tom34.

You couldn't let me know what make of dish you've got could you, and details of your lnb holder?

Xerxes

I've got a Zehnder dish, the 28° LNB is centered on the arm, the holder for 19°E consists of 2 Alu-brackets on a Alu-strip (see pic), positioning for Astra 1 is not so critical...
I used the original multifeed holder to attach the 13° LNB to the 19° LNB. That's one of the reasons why Hotbird reception is not good.

Aligning the dish on 28.2E is very critical, a few millimeters make the difference between clear picture and a distorted picture (sound breaks and pixels) My dish is placed in the garden, so adjusting is relatively easy (as well as me bumping into it with the lawnmower ) and I can wipe off the water from my LNB if necessary, which may be a bit difficult for you (3 meters above ground).
Using my Skybox's (Panasonic) reception meter didn't work well, it's reacting too slow...

 

[Tom34]

The E and W parameters are from your local Due south position, so if you are 11degrees east, then you should achieve 50W to 70E with a 60 x 60 degree motor, assuming of course a clear line of sight.

Oh, I didn't think of that 11°E.... clear line of sight is no problem, unless the neighbor decides to open his big umbrella, but he rarely does that at night

 

[xband]

I'm located in the north eastern part of Switzerland, on the lake of Constance and I'm too interested in a setup with Astra 2D, Astra 1 and Hotbird. I decided to use a Gibertini 125cm dish with Multifeed.
Can anyone of you tell me how far apart the LNB holders have to be placed on the Multifeed holder?

Thanks
XBand

 

[xerxes]

A Twin-Invacom is in the planning, along with a 1m Gibertini (55€, is that a good price?) but I'll wait until BBC is really FTA.

Skimming through "Infosat" (the rather densely written German Sat-Mag) I see there are several adverts for 0.3 db Invacom twins, for about €55.

Gibertini 100 dishes seem to be priced at about €65 and upwards. The cheapest I've seen them is on eBay.de, for €55 + €9 postage - new.

Ebay had also got quite an interesting selection of multifeed holders, from €12 to €20. With the biggest, they claimed you could receive signals from 28.2° E to 5° W with an 85cm dish. Looked a bit frail though.

Is there anything to watch out for when mounting a fairly large multi-feed holder, or is it really as easy as it looks?

Talking about mounting things, I'm wondering how to mount a 100 cm dish on the side of my balcony, which is made of wood, and runs right round the house.

It would be nice if I could use the same 30 mm fitting as my 85 cm dish, but should I be going for something stronger?

My wife seems to think I should go the extra mile, to prevent the dish from crashing down on her whilst she's partaking of the traditional "Kaffee und Küchen" (coffee and cake) in the garden.

If I am to pander to her every whim I can imagine it might be better to attach the dish to a sort of mini-mast, fixed top and bottom to the balcony with the fixing points being about 60 cms apart. Anyone got any views?


Xerxes

 

[rolfw]

A photo of the balcony would help Xerxes.

 

[xerxes]

A photo of the balcony would help Xerxes.

thanks rolfw - I'll take a picture just as soon as Amazon deliver the digital camera I ordered from them yesterday.

Xerxes

 

[rolfw]

LOL, I must be Psychic......Strange.......

 

[xerxes]

It's taken a bit of time, but here's the photo of my dish fixing (I don't remember Kodak Brownies coming with 200 page handbooks written in German, but that's progress for you, I suppose).

The wooden balcony is very solidly built. My 85 cm dish is fixed to it as you can see in the photo, held on to it by 5 10 cm bolts fixed into wooden beams behind the cladding.

The dish is relatively protected, but even so gets buffeted about by the violent summer storms we get here - which also lay waste to the dahlias really impressively.

I imagine the 300 mm fixing would take a 100 cm dish - but do you think something sturdier would be needed for 120 cms?

Xerxes

 

[Tom34]

The wooden balcony is very solidly built. My 85 cm dish is fixed to it as you can see in the photo, held on to it by 5 10 cm bolts fixed into wooden beams behind the cladding.

The dish is relatively protected, but even so gets buffeted about by the violent summer storms we get here - which also lay waste to the dahlias really impressively.

I imagine the 300 mm fixing would take a 100 cm dish - but do you think something sturdier would be needed for 120 cms?

Xerxes

Just a short update. I got a 1m dish now. It's good enough to receive BBC during "normal" rain, during yesterdays thunderstorm BBC was gone for a few minutes when it was raining really hard, Astra 1, Hotbird and Sirius (on a different dish) were off too, but Ch 4+5 were still ok.

Don't underestimate the forces a 1m dish brings onto the fixing compared to a 80cm or 85cm dish. Going from 85cm to 100 cm means that the windload increases by approx. 30%. (85cm to 120cm: 80%)
Your 85 dish is already moving in storms? Maybe you should think about getting a more solid fixing.

Thomas

 

[rolfw]

Apologies Xerxes, missed your post with the photo, as Thomas says, a heavier duty bracket will be required, you may wish to spread the load on the woodwork over a wider area.

That's interesting info Thomas, I will add it to the Astra 2D thread list. Is that using the Gilbertini and Invacom?

 

[Tom34]

Apologies Xerxes, missed your post with the photo, as Thomas says, a heavier duty bracket will be required, you may wish to spread the load on the woodwork over a wider area.

That's interesting info Thomas, I will add it to the Astra 2D thread list. Is that using the Gilbertini and Invacom?

It's just the Gibertini, I didn't get the Invacom. My old LNB is already 0.5db, I don't remember the name, I'll have to check tonight.

 

[xerxes]

The Gibertini 100 dish I ordered last Sunday from ebay was delivered yesterday, on Friday. I was really quite impressed with it as even though it came without any sort of instructions at all, it was clear how the many bits all fitted together - except for 1 rotten 175mm x 3mm screw.

Could this screw have been a free gift, or does it play some absolutely essential role I'm not aware of? Did you get one as well, Tom34, with your Gibertini dish, and would you have any idea what it's for?

By the way rolfw, I can confirm that you can definitely pick up the BBC with a 100 cm (Humax?) dish and an Invacom single LNB here in Holzkirchen, 40 odd kms south east of Munich.

Our new neighbours introduced themselves to us recently with the line "We heard you're English - you wouldn't know how we can get BBC TV again, would you?". Sorted it all out last Saturday. Maximized the signal quality on their Panasonic 30 Digibox, from 45% up to 87% by realigning their dish a bit. When they used my (brand new) Invacom LNB in place of their City Com 1.0db Univeral LNB, the Beeb came in loud and clear, much to our surprise.

Ordered the Gibertini dish, another Invacom LNB, and a multifeed holder from ebay the next day. Still waiting for the multifeed holder to come. Nevertheless, tomorrow is pencilled in for a bit of barn-raising, when we stick the new dish up together, and hope for the best

Xerxes

 

[xerxes]

My wife has just discovered the mysterious screw is to hold the tacky black plastic LNB holder together. Apparently if I have any other technical problems I should "just ask her".

Xerxes

 

[xerxes]

Have now got the Gibertini 100 cm dish up OK, and am getting good reception on all channels (including the Beebs) - and even with ITV2, which appears to be the weakest signal from 2D.

But am decidedly unsatisfied with the Astra 1 reception. Have just spent the last 2 hours in the blazing heat trying to position the twin analog LNB to get the best signal possible - but still get too many sparklies on too many channels. I must say, I am decidedly unimpressed with the Gibertini multi-feed holder. Seems to me to be very poorly designed.

I'm seriously thinking now about ditching the analog lnb (and my 2 analog receivers) and going digital with Astra 1.

But is the digital signal stronger from Astra 1? Would I still need an lnb like an Invacom twin, or wouldn't that be so important?

Should I in fact be thinking about giving up the the whole idea of receiving Astras 1 and 2 with my 100 cm dish, digital or not?

Reading one of your earlier postings, Tom34, you say you had no trouble picking up Astras 1 and 2 with your 80 cm dish. What sort of lnb are you using to receive Astra 1? And is it in fact digital?

Xerxes

 

[rolfw]

Hi Xerxes, thanks for the info, have added it to the main list.

With the secondary LNB for Astra, it may be that you are not hitting the dish dead centre, it is a tighter beam than on a smaller dish and harder to get it right.

 

[xerxes]

With the secondary LNB for Astra, it may be that you are not hitting the dish dead centre, it is a tighter beam than on a smaller dish and harder to get it right.

Thanks rolfw - am I right in thinking you mean I should try to position the Astra 1 analog LNB more accurately, rather than repositioning the dish? After all, Astra 2D reception is more important to me than Astra 1.

It seems pretty daft to me, but at the moment have spent far more time trying to get an acceptable Astra 1 signal than I did positioning the dish to get Astra 2D. And I had one of those nice stripey Astra 1 test-cards to help check the reception.

Do you think I'd be better off forgetting about the analog Astra 1 signal, and switching to Astra 1 digital?

Incidentally, we had the mother of all thunderstorms here last night. It was with great relief that when I checked first thing in the morning not only had the balcony not collapsed but could still pick up 2D (ie the dish hadn't moved at all).

Xerxes

 

[Tom34]

Thanks rolfw - am I right in thinking you mean I should try to position the Astra 1 analog LNB more accurately, rather than repositioning the dish? After all, Astra 2D reception is more important to me than Astra 1.

It seems pretty daft to me, but at the moment have spent far more time trying to get an acceptable Astra 1 signal than I did positioning the dish to get Astra 2D. And I had one of those nice stripey Astra 1 test-cards to help check the reception.

Do you think I'd be better off forgetting about the analog Astra 1 signal, and switching to Astra 1 digital?

Incidentally, we had the mother of all thunderstorms here last night. It was with great relief that when I checked first thing in the morning not only had the balcony not collapsed but could still pick up 2D (ie the dish hadn't moved at all).

Xerxes

Hi Xerxes,

the Gibertini multifeed holder... oh well. After trying to get Astra 1 with that thing, I decided to throw it away and use my old holder.
I loosened the 2 screws that hold the thing, due to the weight of the Astra and Hotbird LNBs the whole thing went downwards and I got a much better picture on Astra 1. I don't know who designed the multifeed hoder but I'm not impressed ...
Leave the dish positioned at Astra 2 snd put your Astra 1 LNB about 2 cm lower than the Astra 2 LNB. Try to turn it so that it is almost parallel to the A2 LNB (as much as the holder allows you to) The signal should be as good as with your 85cm dish.
I'm not using my analogue receiver anymore, only the digital one. As far as I can remember all the analogue channels on A1 are broadcasting in digital as well.

Thomas

 

[xerxes]

Leave the dish positioned at Astra 2 snd put your Astra 1 LNB about 2 cm lower than the Astra 2 LNB. Try to turn it so that it is almost parallel to the A2 LNB (as much as the holder allows you to) The signal should be as good as with your 85cm dish.

Tried out your suggestion, Tom34, as best I could, by taking the Astra 1 LNB out if its holder and holding it (by hand) directly on top of the multifeed rail, thus lowering the LNB 1.5 cms. Got a much better picture than yesterday, but still with some sparklies on ARD and the other weaker channels.

Then held the LNB immediately in front of the rail, lowering it another 2 cms - that's a total of 3.5 cms lower than its start position. This got an almost perfect picture - at least according to my wife who was manning the TV at the time.

So have now gaffer-taped the LNB to the multifeed rail, at the 1.5 cm lower position, and the picture's not too bad. Should be alright for the moment as long as the wind doesn't blow. And it doesn't rain. And nobody breathes on it.

So it looks as if you've really hit on something here, Tom34 - the Astra 1 LNB has to be 2 - 4 cms lower than the Astra 2 LNB.

I thought I'd take the multifeed rail, which is 40 cms long, cut it roughly in half, and mount the 2nd half offset to the right under the first, the correct distance below it.

Hope there's no problem with the Astra 1 LNB still being parallel to the Astra 2 LNB, 3 odd cms above it (and to the left of course).

That's what I thought I would do, but I think I'll have a beer first.

Cheers
Xerxes.

 

[rolfw]

So have now gaffer-taped the LNB to the multifeed rail, at the 1.5 cm lower position, and the picture's not too bad. Should be alright for the moment as long as the wind doesn't blow. And it doesn't rain. And nobody breathes on it.

LOL, keep up that type of improvisation and you'll be able to join us professionals Xerxes.

 

[Tom34]

Then held the LNB immediately in front of the rail, lowering it another 2 cms - that's a total of 3.5 cms lower than its start position. This got an almost perfect picture - at least according to my wife who was manning the TV at the time.

So it looks as if you've really hit on something here, Tom34 - the Astra 1 LNB has to be 2 - 4 cms lower than the Astra 2 LNB.

Hope there's no problem with the Astra 1 LNB still being parallel to the Astra 2 LNB, 3 odd cms above it (and to the left of course).

Cheers
Xerxes.

4 cm seems a bit much. Maybe your dish is aiming a bit too high?
How did you align your dish? Using your skybox but no direct sight to a TV?
I found my Panny's "meter" a bit slow in responding (if at all) to small adjustments of the dish. Without seeing the TV, even a small delay could cause a minor misalignment on Astra 2 .
Do you have a digital receiver other than the Skybox? I found that a analogue receiver is great for finding a satellite, but not as good for fine tuning as a digital one with a "real time" meter.