Reception problems in Cyprus.

[Zorba]

My turn to post a problem.
For the past few weeks we have had problems receiving CH4 BBC London and BBC Scotland from early evening (earlier than usual).
Usually on 2D CH4 was the strongest frequency on 10.714 and ITV2+1 the weakest.
Basically we get all 8 Horizontal transponders and no Vertical. The lowest frequency was strongest and the highest frequency the weakest.Simples.
Now we have problems where some people do not get CH4 and BBC Scotland at all ,and BBC London breaking up.
I install many 3m plus dishes and I always align to 2D to maximise BBC. On my spectrum analyser I look for the low band horizontal "spikes" and align accordingly. It used to be that when I switch to vertical ,I should not get any spikes if my skew is perfect. Lately I have seen a signal on the vertcal at around 10.732 V but it was not strong enough to be identified on my satlook combo,and I thought it was a stray signal from a local phone mast(we get interference from these mobile phone masts on CH4 10.714H ).
Then one day as I was moving installing a new dish I moved the dish to my right after 28.2E and noticed that signal was getting stronger ,then I reached Arabsat at 26E. So I tuned in and got FTA Arab channels . But that was the only signal on low band, the rest of their channels are high band. Checking on Lyngsat there was no channels listed on low band,until this week.There are about ten channels now listed on 10.730H and there is a HD channel on 10.730V.
So its obvious that is what is causing the interference/break ups ,but how can it affect 10.714H and 10.803H more than 10.773H. I know we are in the middle of their footprint and a 70cm dish is enough to receive arabsat,so a 3m would probably get overloaded. But their 10.730 is way too strong,would it not give them problems ?

 

[Analoguesat]

Looking at the Arabsat site thats a Badr 5 frequency. And its going to get worse for you - one of the frequency sub bands Badr 5 will use is 10700-10950MHz. So you can expect more 28E frequencies to get nailed as that low sub band is opened up over the next few months.

 

[Zorba]

Looking at the Arabsat site thats a Badr 5 frequency. And its going to get worse for you - one of the frequency sub bands Badr 5 will use is 10700-10950MHz. So you can expect more 28E frequencies to get nailed as that low sub band is opened up over the next few months.

Oh Crap ! Thats all we need.Damn them for being only 2.2 degrees away. Shouldn't be allowed. They even have a satellite at 30.5E and thats started to fill up at familiar frequencies.
If only I could modify my laser pen to long range. Any ideas ?

 

[Analoguesat]

Bigger dishes required to tighten the accepted incoming beamwidth

You are stuffed anyway in 2012-4 when the Middle East spots on 2E-2G come into play

 

[Analoguesat]

They even have a satellite at 30.5E and thats started to fill up at familiar frequencies.

Yup - Arabsat 5A is also registered for use at 10700-10950Mz - so is another candidate for interference to swallows & expats!

 

[Zorba]

Yup - Arabsat 5A is also registered for use at 10700-10950Mz - so is another candidate for interference to swallows & expats!

Can't help the swallows plight,but I suppose its time to get involved with internet tv. A lot of the older expats are discovering bbc iplayer and itv.com etc. And now theres this internet box thingy which gets terrestial channels and stuff.
No more climbimg ladders in the hot sun

 

[Analoguesat]

Can't help the swallows plight,but I suppose its time to get involved with internet tv. A lot of the older expats are discovering bbc iplayer and itv.com etc. And now theres this internet box thingy which gets terrestial channels and stuff.
No more climbimg ladders in the hot sun

Much easier to set up broadband vpn's instead

 

[iceman]

zorba
Try a brand new C120 invacom (if you have one in stock, cos at the moment there is a shortage) on one of these problem dishes and let me know the outcome..
I have replaced so many invacoms this past year than i ever did before..somehow they start playing up after couple of years..

and...get yourself a decent sat meter to work on BER.....not "spikes"

 

[bashwell]

Zorba,
Do you have any details on this " And now theres this internet box thingy" ?
I've spent thousands of euros on con artists selling me bigger and better dishes that don't do what they tell me they'll do ;
maybe time to go internet tv?
Thanks

 

[iceman]

with the present data compression & transmission technology,"this internet box thingy" cannot be a replacement for proper TV reception from satellite...specially now that HD has arrived!!

 

[Analoguesat]

Theres also the data caps on many broadband accounts to consider - unless you have a huge data cap or a truly unlimited account a tv stream will push you over your data transfer limits well inside a month.

 

[Zorba]

zorba
Try a brand new C120 invacom (if you have one in stock, cos at the moment there is a shortage) on one of these problem dishes and let me know the outcome..
I have replaced so many invacoms this past year than i ever did before..somehow they start playing up after couple of years..

and...get yourself a decent sat meter to work on BER.....not "spikes"

Ha ha,my van always has 3 or 4 LNB's for emergencies.If there is a shortage I better stock up with more .Usually when they start to go,ITV2+1 on 10.891H disappears.Thats my usual reference
I also have replaced many Invacoms this year. They don't last more than 2 years(or 2 hot summers).
Also I use my trusted Horizon for pinpoint alignment,I only mentioned the spikes so I could explain the problem easily.
I suppose your area is out of reach of the dreaded Arabsat 26E low band footprint ? Although Paphos suffers also.Check on your spectrum and see if that 10.730 V is present.

 

[Zorba]

Well,apparently,these boxes originate from Spain or thereabouts. But I heard quality is not up to scratch so I am waiting for a chance to try one.
I know that when your area loses a channel,our area gets it better,like ITV mer n and ch4 on 12.402V and 12.480V respectively.

 

[iceman]

I suppose your area is out of reach of the dreaded Arabsat 26E low band footprint ? Although Paphos suffers also.Check on your spectrum and see if that 10.730 V is present.

No 10730V on my spectrum here...I find it hard to believe there is going to be interference from one satellite footprint to another, 3 degrees apart and this is going to cause problems to some and no interference couple of hundred Kms away!!

 

[hexah]

Zorba,
Do you have any details on this " And now theres this internet box thingy" ?
I've spent thousands of euros on con artists selling me bigger and better dishes that don't do what they tell me they'll do ;
maybe time to go internet tv?
Thanks

with the present data compression & transmission technology,"this internet box thingy" cannot be a replacement for proper TV reception from satellite...specially now that HD has arrived!!

Theres also the data caps on many broadband accounts to consider - unless you have a huge data cap or a truly unlimited account a tv stream will push you over your data transfer limits well inside a month.

All good points.

Also there is the problem of local contention made worse by everyone else watching videos via crap local cabling.

Youtube is too slow to play even the lowest resolution here for most of the evening and at the weekend. During the day is fine. And I bet the cabling is better than in Cyprus!

I've spent thousands of euros on con artists selling me bigger and better dishes that don't do what they tell me they'll do

Get an additional motorized 80cm for the other satellites which have english language programmes that are specifically broadcast to this region (the middle east and the balkans)?

 

[Zorba]

No 10730V on my spectrum here...I find it hard to believe there is going to be interference from one satellite footprint to another, 3 degrees apart and this is going to cause problems to some and no interference couple of hundred Kms away!!

What ? What inferior dishes do you install ?
The bigger the dish the more the problem. Went to a customer with a Supral 2.8m offset. The 2D h signals were present but noit strong enough to get BBC etc ,but no 10.730V visible on my spectrum.
Later I went to a customer with a 6month old 3.7m prime focus and BBC scotland on 10.803H was freezing up.CH4 and BBC 1 London were okay(where they would have been bad on a 3m).I was getting a low reading on my Horizon for 2D and when I stepped onto the dish the signal went up from 8 to 9 per cent .
I remember a strange one from last year in Pissouri when a customer could not receive BBC Scotland but all other 2D channels were working. Dish was spot on alignment and LNB okay.When I stood on my stepladder in front of the dish the customer called out that BBC Scoitland started working.When I moved away it went to no signal again.
Looking across the village I could see a big mast on top of a hill a couple of miles away. This had 2 local tv staions and mobile phone repeaters etc I assume it was pretty strong as this is a corner of Cyprusbetween Limassol and Paphos and used to be a dead spot for tv and mobile phones near Aphrodites rock. I could see an interfering spike on my spectrum in satellite mode on the lowest frequency point. When I clicked picture(like l would on an analogue signal) I could see a faint local tv picture, which usually transmits on C63 UHF,breaking into KU band.
I saw an old door in his garden,so I propped it in front of the dish blocking the view of the distant transmitter and his BBC Sotland worked perfectly.After a few weeks the interference stopped.

 

[iceman]

Zorba
Love your excuses man...

 

[divibi]

The bigger the dish the more the problem. Went to a customer with a Supral 2.8m offset. The 2D h signals were present but noit strong enough to get BBC etc ,but no 10.730V visible on my spectrum.
Later I went to a customer with a 6month old 3.7m prime focus

Hi,
Am I right in thinking that offset dishes have wider beamwidths and see more of the satellites at once while prime focus dishes are far more discriminating with far more narrower beamwidths? So 2.8 m offset can easily "see" the BADR satellite at the same time and the Astra 2D corresponding frequencies are jammed. But a 5 m prime focus dish would see each satellite from the 28.2e cluster separately and Astra 2D freqs would eventually win against "some distant" 26e satellite. Can someone confirm it?

 

[Zorba]

Hi,
Am I right in thinking that offset dishes have wider beamwidths and see more of the satellites at once while prime focus dishes are far more discriminating with far more narrower beamwidths? So 2.8 m offset can easily "see" the BADR satellite at the same time and the Astra 2D corresponding frequencies are jammed. But a 5 m prime focus dish would see each satellite from the 28.2e cluster separately and Astra 2D freqs would eventually win against "some distant" 26e satellite. Can someone confirm it?

I think its the other way round. A prime focus has wider beamwidth and you can see unwanted weak spikes on the spectrum which come from the next satellite. Arabsat is only2.2degrees away and if the dish is not perfectly curved then it would not focus tightly on the wanted satellite. I did not see this problem on the offset. If there was a bigger offset dish,we would use them,but apparently they are very expensive.

 

[Zorba]

Zorba
Love your excuses man...

Yeah,well. Sometimes the customers think we make it up as we go along