Satellited multi phase array [Complications reach infinity]

[QWEREWQ]

Hi
I want a short abstract about Satelited phased systems and a focused explaination about the equipment responsible for phasing the dishes together
to be ready for a normal satelite receiver

Note:I need them on 4 polarities as a quattro lnb would do

PS: 10X 250 cm parabolic dish for the array

Thanks

 

[Lazarus]

Outside the realistic scope of a hobby forum - but if your wider research leads to a successful outcome, we'd be very happy for you to report back to us

 

[Analoguesat]

Sigh you wont be told will you QWEREWQ??

Good luck with your project - and if you get it working we would love to see the results, costings, and channels you can get

However back in the real world, its not going to come to anything. Because unless you have the military budget of North Korea at your disposal you are living in fantasy land.

 

[Terryl]

Unfortunately at consumer levels of equipment available you will not be able to phase together several satellite dishes, this is due to the high frequency's involved.

At 12 GHz you cant use standard 75 ohm coax, the frequency is way too high, you need to use what is called "Wave Guide" to couple the 10 dishes together, using 12 GHz wave guide would run you about 70 to 80 thousand Euros, as you need feed horns, combiners, bandpass filters, tunable stubs and amps to get it back to the LNB.

And you cant use 10 standard LNB's and combine the signals ether, they don't have a way to frequency synchronize the LO to have the "L" band signal phased correctly.

What they do in a phased array is to use some very high quality, very low noise block down converters that are connected to a master time base, these signals are all at the same phase and amplitude, they are then summed together in a very expensive piece of equipment called a summing amp.

The receiver(s) are also connected to the same master time base, this time base is usually a Rubidium frequency standard (see a Symmeticom 804C) to insure that there is no drift or phase noise in the system.

Look here for a book that will explain a bit more on how to do this, if you have the budget of Paul Allen (co-founder of Microsoft) you will have a very nice looking setup.
_http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471727571.html

 

[Terryl]

Hi
I want a short abstract about Satelited phased systems and a focused explaination about the equipment responsible for phasing the dishes together
to be ready for a normal satelite receiver

Note:I need them on 4 polarities as a quattro lnb would do

PS: 10X 250 cm parabolic dish for the array

Thanks

It would also be cheaper to get a 11 meter dish, (about the same gain as 10-250 cm dishes) take a look here.

_http://www.gdsatcom.com/Antennas/Data_Sheets/11m.pdf

 

[Analoguesat]

We have been through this with him several times terryl. He just ignores our advice as its not the answer her wants to hear.

He's trying to get a massive dish made of 2.4m units as thats the biggest thats allowed in Egypt without special permissions.

Somehow hes under the impression that if he asks enough times in different ways the answer will suddenly transcend the laws of physics (and whats practical) and become a cheap option for getting the west European channels he so desires.

 

[Channel Hopper]

It would also be cheaper to get a 11 meter dish, (about the same gain as 10-250 cm dishes) take a look here.

Actually even the most efficient array of 10 x 2.5m dishes might approach the same gain as a single 6m antenna. An 11m version would take nearer 40 of them phased together.

 

[Terryl]

The biggest I've ever phased was 3 Andrews 3.6 meter dishes, some dingbat wanted it done and I wasn't going to turn down what he offered to do it, lets say it made a very nice down payment on my first new car, he really wanted that satellite but was outside the footprint by quite a bit, this was back in the old analog "C" band days, his wife was obsessed with Dr. Gene Scott, and he had the money to please her.

3.6 meters was the biggest dish he could get by his building department with out a commercial satellite license or I could have done it with 1 dish.

 

[ralphmagno]

hello,
how much could a satellite license cost?
in order to hook 10 dishes togeather it would be costly for sure.
one master clock would have to run the master L.O of the system.
one would have a non stearable system all pointing to the same satellite.the they would have waveguide all cut and hooking all the feedhorns togeather.
the resulting energy would then have one c120 lnb connected .
the lnb would have to be chilled to reduce noise.
the german guy in brasil built a massive dish to receive astra 19 degrees to receive german tv and he chilled the lnb amp .
one must figure out all the losses in the wave guide .it will probably be silver coated on the inside.
it would be easier to have a licence and buy a big dish.
what are they trying to receive there anyone know??
ralph

 

[Terryl]

hello,
how much could a satellite license cost?
in order to hook 10 dishes togeather it would be costly for sure.
one master clock would have to run the master L.O of the system.
one would have a non stearable system all pointing to the same satellite.the they would have waveguide all cut and hooking all the feedhorns togeather.
the resulting energy would then have one c120 lnb connected .
the lnb would have to be chilled to reduce noise.
the german guy in brasil built a massive dish to receive astra 19 degrees to receive german tv and he chilled the lnb amp .
one must figure out all the losses in the wave guide .it will probably be silver coated on the inside.
it would be easier to have a licence and buy a big dish.
what are they trying to receive there anyone know??
ralph

Thats what I would like to know....

 

[QWEREWQ]

Thanks for these great info.i would like to add that my budget will be around 12,000 EGP
Can you tell me more about the manufacturers of these devices you talked about
Thanks again

EDIT:arent thoses wave guides basicly rigid lines and hard lines?!

 

[sonnetpete]

Without wishing to be negative, I would think that's a totally unrealistic budget for what you have in mind. 12,000 EGP converts to just over €1500. I was contemplating spending just less than that on a 1.8M motorised dish last year (that's without a receiver and installing it myself). You really need to add a couple of noughts onto your budget....at least.

 

[QWEREWQ]

I just want the manufacturers of these wave guides and i will do the research and see if i can afford these stuff
(websites will do)

also can you tell me how a coax converter (to be connected with a wave guide) works?

Thanks

 

[Lazarus]

As frequently stated, this is a hobby Forum and the vast majority of members deal only with relatively uncomplicated installations - certainly not phased arrays. So don't expect much success in getting waveguide related questions answered without doing much more private research. Some of us are familiar with waveguide applications from our earlier Professional lives but frankly virtually all us do go no further than using low-loss coax based systems and, in a very few cases, perhaps optical fibre.

Can I ask if you are relying upon this Forum exclusively, or are you asking these questions elsewhere as well?

 

[Analoguesat]

Thanks for these great info.i would like to add that my budget will be around 12,000 EGP
Can you tell me more about the manufacturers of these devices you talked about
Thanks again

Oh good grief. Your ambitions fall woefully short of reality. As usual I have to add. Your budget needs 3 or 4 0's adding onto it.

I have come to the conclusion you are deliberately wasting our time with your unrealistic questions. Why dont you go and find another forum to ask your questions in??

 

[QWEREWQ]

As frequently stated, this is a hobby Forum and the vast majority of members deal only with relatively uncomplicated installations - certainly not phased arrays. So don't expect much success in getting waveguide related questions answered without doing much more private research. Some of us are familiar with waveguide applications from our earlier Professional lives but frankly virtually all us do go no further than using low-loss coax based systems and, in a very few cases, perhaps optical fibre.

Can I ask if you are relying upon this Forum exclusively, or are you asking these questions elsewhere as well?

yes i am only asking in this forum and its because its one of the best

 

[QWEREWQ]

Oh good grief. Your ambitions fall woefully short of reality. As usual I have to add. Your budget needs 3 or 4 0's adding onto it.

I have come to the conclusion you are deliberately wasting our time with your unrealistic questions. Why dont you go and find another forum to ask your questions in??

I ask for two reason.first to learn .and second to do these stuff my self and get ASTRA 2D for fun and to watch the channels too

Why dont you go and find another forum to ask your questions in??

Should i consider this as "Get out of here"

 

[Lazarus]

yes i am only asking in this forum and its because its one of the best

Well that's something we can all agree on.

 

[Analoguesat]

I ask for two reason.first to learn .and second to do these stuff my self and get ASTRA 2D for fun and to watch the channels too

As we have repeatedly told you, Astra 2D is not available in Egypt without a VERY big dish. Your budget is woefully short of achieving your ambitions of a phased array.

Therefore your options are:

1) do without
2) move to western Euriope
3) get the channels sent to you via iptv - which we have already discussed is problematical for you because of cost / bandwidth

Basically your options narrow down to number 1

Should i consider this as "Get out of here"

No but this discussion has gone far enough. Im going to close this thread now, and whilst you are very welcome to discuss hobby level stuff here, please dont reopen chat about phased arrays / satellite internet for 52 people or anything else thats not genuinely HOBBY level.