Satnav users in France

[PLANTPOT]

The law here in France has recently changed regarding the use of satnavs, and it is now illegal to have any satnav loaded with French speed camera positions.

Vehicle checks are commonplace and if caught you face a hefty fine and confiscation of the satnav or if the Gendarme happens to be in a bad mood your car impounded.

Tomtom have issued updates for this to comply with the law so if you haven't updated your satnav and intend to drive in France-do it now.

This also applies to ALL Satnavs/GPS radar warning devices,both stand alone and factory fitted,and all brands.
PP

 

[A nonymous]

Not really a problem if you ask me. I've gone through speed cameras before in France and never received a speeding ticket yet

Don't think they can be bothered trying to trace a British registered car in all honesty

Nano

 

[sonnetpete]

I've seen a lot of discussion about this on ex pat forums. Concensus seems to be that the law either only applies to radar detectors or that if it does apply to satnavs, the gendarmes do not have the right to enter your car to check your satnavs compliance. At this stage I don't think it's law and it should be borne in mind that we have Presidential elections coming up and laws are open to being rescinded. A similar thing happened before with the 'law' on taxing people with a second home, it never came about.

@Nano : The usual thing with non French licence plates is that levying a fine isn't much of a problem but applying the points is. (France takes points off starting at 12, UK adds them on, up to 12) There are again rumours of a pooling of driver info, so that EU points become transferable.

 

[RimaNTSS]

Where I can read little bit more about system you have in France: it is small box in the car with GSM chip inside, so box receives information from central server via GSM and displays different kind of information on the screen. System is interactive, so everybody who has this equipment can add some information and everybody see it. Points of interest could be different: cameras, police posts, traffic accidents, traffic jams etc. It that completely legal system?
They started to introduce something similar in my country named "City Guide".
Radar detectors are illegal in my country, that easy to get about 80 bucks penalty (if they see the device).

 

[fergyc]

I read about someone in the UK getting a German registered car to avoid getting parking tickets a few years back!

Don't see why speed camera detectors are illegal. Stops people speeding, doesn't it?

 

[PaulR]

... Concensus seems to be that the law either only applies to radar detectors ...

I believe that radar detectors have been illegal to own, never mind operate, in France for a good number of years. British drivers have long been advised to remove them from their cars before venturing abroad.

The usual thing with non French licence plates is that levying a fine isn't much of a problem but applying the points is... There are again rumours of a pooling of driver info, so that EU points become transferable

Levying the fine isn't a problem if it's a manned trap and the gendarmes are waving people down a few miles ahead. Automatic machines are a different matter and, to my great shame, I've been flashed by the trap on the A6 going downhill into Lyon when the limit suddenly drops to 90km/h.

I never heard anything but that was a few years ago and there is now an authorised department somewhere that sends letters to people in the UK if they have been flashed in France demanding money. It is rumoured that if you ignore this letter then, at present, nothing further happens.

I hadn't heard the points tranferance rumour but this would surely rely upon all the countries having the same number of points available before a ban?

 

[PaulR]

I read about someone in the UK getting a German registered car to avoid getting parking tickets a few years back!

A good few years ago I ran a car with Dutch plates on it. It had been recovered from the former European rep and brought back to the UK where I bought it (I had great ideas of leaving to live in France within a short time and I thought that a LHD car would be a good start). I ran it on those Dutch plates right up to the maximum until one day I had a visit from the Police who gently suggested that it as time register it in the UK - which I uly did. I didn't go around breaking the speed limit though.

 

[RimaNTSS]

There are no legal framework yet that my country's authorities could collect penalty from foreigners if they are flashed by speed camera.

 

[sonnetpete]

I don't think I can help much Rima. I use a UK bought satnav (Garmin) with European mapping. There are warnings of camera sites, which is I think, what the French government are trying to clamp down on. I'm not aware of a interactive system as you describe.

 

[RimaNTSS]

I'm not aware of a interactive system as you describe.

I backseat-drive one car in Paris some time ago and while we where on this ride driver described this system and told how good it is. For example if some time ago one driver spotted mobile speed camera and pushed bottom on device, than shortly all system users have on their screens mark that there is camera. I think this is great idea.
Situation in Latvia: last year authorities announced tender for civilian companies for installing almost 200 speed cameras. Rules where- company do all purchases of equipment and installations and than collects 33% of penalties collected. Rest should go to government, they even plan this income in this year's budget. Funny is not it?

 

[sonnetpete]

Maybe this is something exclusively in Paris, (or possibly in other large cities too). For sure it hasn't found it's way into the backwoods of Normandy. As usual governments have easy targets in motorists, though locally any radar traps are normally hidden in the same places and you watch out at those locations. Boringly, I try and observe the speed limit as I can neither afford a fine or to lose my licence, which is why I never drink at all if I'm driving. I've been spot breathalysed twice in a month before now.

 

[Bannon]

I lived in France for many years and speed cameras were nowhere near as common as in the UK - maybe things have changed. I found the bigger worry was those instant fines!

 

[PaulR]

The camera problem is nowhere near as bad as in the UK but there are definite signs of "camera creep".

Re: instant fines - see my post earlier this thread.

 

[sonnetpete]

There's definitely no cameras locally, but they spring up nearer to larger cities, Rennes, Caen and there's a couple on the way into St.Malo. I have yet to see one that isn't 'fixed' (other than those held by the gendarmes) but it may happen yet.

Re instant fines: I have heard of people being "accompanied" by the gendarmes to the nearest cash point so that they can pay. More often than not, the English (either holiday makers or those who have just made the 'move') are caught out by the lack of a speed limit sign when they enter a built up area. The 'ville' name, black letters on a white rectangular background with a red border signifies a 50kph limit and is in force until you exit the area, signified by another 'ville' name with a black diagonal line.

 

[PLANTPOT]

As Pete says, on the spot fines are enforced one way or another.
Getting flashed by a fixed camera in a UK (or other non French) registered vehicle whilst a few kms over the limit probably will not be chased up,as current systems cannot read foreign reg plates,this will probably change at some point,if it hasn't already.
The same applies to foreign plated cars in the UK,the cameras cannot read the plates correctly.

Getting stopped by the Police in a mobile trap will result in an on the spot fine,and if you happen to have a non legal satnav or gps system that shows French camera positions another 750 euro fine + confiscation of the equipment and 6 points if you have a French license.

Driving around locally you won't see that many fixed camera,but there are a lot of mobile camera sites all over the place,and they often just have a spot check day because it's a nice sunny day.

As for the rights of a a Gendarme (with a gun ) having or not having the right to inspect your equipment to see if it complies or not,I think I know who would come off best if you decided to argue the point.

I have a new fully compliant system with a certificate of conformity to show if required.
PP

 

[Bannon]

They also have a nasty habit of closing down and entire commune as checking papers - which is why we ALWAYS had our paperwork with us. Surprisingly the French seem to accept this as normal - crazy eh? And we think the Brit police are sneaky at times but then at least the gendarmes salute you after they have taken your details and/or money!

 

[sonnetpete]

As for the rights of a a Gendarme (with a gun ) having or not having the right to inspect your equipment to see if it complies or not,I think I know who would come off best if you decided to argue the point.

Agreed, I wouldn't argue with an armed gendarme but according to French law, it's only the customs (douanes) who have the right to enter your vehicle. It is wise not to get the wrong side of a gendarme. We once had a visit from two gendarmes at the end of a summer, to check on who locally was going back to the UK and who were staying. Unfortunately the more senior gendarme had to deal with our then friendly and exuberant young dog, who planted two muddy paws on his previously freshly laundered and pressed shirt. We were then subjected to a stern lecture about getting permission for undertaking any work on the house, without which severe penalties could be applied as it would be 'breaking the law'.

 

[smoggy07]

I don't think I can help much Rima. I use a UK bought satnav (Garmin) with European mapping. There are warnings of camera sites, which is I think, what the French government are trying to clamp down on. I'm not aware of a interactive system as you describe.

It`s not via GPRS/GSM but tomtom offers something where by if you spot a speed trap you can hit a button on your pratnav and it saves the location and type of trap you tell it you have encountered then when you get home and sync the tomtom with its desktop app it uploads the info to a cental server and other tomtom users can download this data to their satnavs so they know where the trap is you spotted

I seen a thing on topgear that said a uk police force had it`s speed cameras turned off and it didnt make a slight bit of difference, there was the same ammount of accidents on their roads both while the cams where on and when they turned them all off

To be fair as well, speed cameras dont stop people from speeding, they just make peoploe slow down when theyre close to a camera or speed trap, once the drivers have passed said cams they speed up again, same with satnav camera allerts, they make the driver slow down untill theyve passed the speed trap/camera then they speed up again

 

[RimaNTSS]

It`s not via GPRS/GSM but tomtom offers something where by if you spot a speed trap you can hit a button on your pratnav and it saves the location and type of trap you tell it you have encountered then when you get home and sync the tomtom with its desktop app it uploads the info to a cental server and other tomtom users can download this data to their satnavs so they know where the trap is you spotted

No, that was definitely instant GSM connection to central system server, and it takes less than a minute for every users to get know about fresh information. Otherwise this system makes almost no sense.

Edit: Something similar that Coyote system in UK _http://www.inrix.com/pressrelease.asp?ID=113
Edit2: Maybe that was Coyote, cuz that system came from France?!