Setting elevation with no useable scale

S

Severn

Member
My Satellite Setup
HP base with Vista HB;
Labgear 60cm dish and receiver.
My Location
Wales
This is my first post, and first attempt to line a dish up. All I have is a compass, a protractor, and a spirit-level.

I just bought an el-cheapo dish and receiver (from ScrewFIX -- Labgear 60cm). I guess it's the most basic kit there is.

I think I've got it lined up horizontally (azimuth 146° magnetic), and the skew at least roughly right (-14°), for Astra 2A-B-D. But I can't even guess how to set the correct elevation (23.2°).

The instructions are a joke : "This is done by aligning to the correct angle on the elevation bracket". The only scale anywhere is a few anonymous random-looking dents, and they're obscured by the bracket in any case. Even if I could see them, there's no mark to align them with.

It's an elliptical dish, with the long axis vertical. The LNB is lower than the obvious focus, so I gather that the actual angle of the dish won't be the obvious 23.2°. Is that correct?

The instructions imply that I have to select a transponder, but I see that the usual free-to-air UK channels are scattered across several. Am I missing something?

Please help.

(And the elevation instructions are not the worst. For polarisation it says "The LNB angle can be adjusted by moving it to the required angle". Super.)
 
Depending on which satellite you are aiming at, just roughly set the azimuth and elevation on the dish, then by using the receiver strength and quality readings in the setup menu, and perhaps a portable TV, gently move the dish horizontally and vertically until you get a signal strength and quality reading. As most digital receivers respond quite slowly, the movement needs to be very gradual as well.
 
Hi Severn.

My advise as a quick and easy way to align your dish is to set up a tv set so that you can see it from your dish, use your compass to find due south and point the dish in that genera direction without tightening any of the bolts too tightly, tune the receiver to a known channel, set the elevation to a random setting, then slowly move the dish from due south to around 35 or 40 degree's East, if you get no signal, move the elevation either up or down and try again, by the process of elimination you'll eventually get the satellite, when you do, take a little while to optimise the dish to get the strongest signal and you've finally achieved your goal.
 
If you decide to get a motor at a later stage - that receiver has motor flaws .. the only ones we got to work with it were STAB- the official USALS .. the dish is OK if it's the one we know .. but the mount is too weak where it should fasten to a wall.
 
Thanks to everybody.

I have it working now, but am missing some of the best channels.

It's set up for Astra 2, and the receiver says it finds 663 TV channels and 164 radio, though most of those are either "Scrambled" or "No signal" according to the receiver.

After lots of fiddling about, the best Signal Quality I can get seems to be 43%, Strength 73%, but the picture is fine on most of the visible channels.

I get BBC1, Alba, News, and Parliament, but no BBC2, 3, or 4.

I get ITV1 and 3, but no 2 and 4.

Plus CNN, C4, Russia Today, S4C, Al Jazeera, and a few others, but E4, Five, and More4 are "Scrambled". Plus a hell of a lot of rubbish, of course. Radio seems OK.

Am I doing anything obviously wrong? How can I get the missing BBC and ITV channels?

The LNB skew is -14° -- I mean 14° anti-clockwise from the top looking at the concave side of the dish.

I was going to try Eurobird-1 as well, but it's not in the receiver list.
 
pedro2000uk said:
You should easily get all the channels from 28.2e & 28.5e - just blind scan and they will all end up on one satellite.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'm a novice at this caper.

You mean I will already have the Eurobird-1 channels even though I could only select Astra-2 on the receiver?
 
you can scan using the tps that are already stored in the receiver for that satellite position... or you can blind scan so it will look for them.

If you have already done that (blind scanned) then you still have fine adjustment to do on the dish ... that dish / receiver will have no problem when it's set up well.
 
Severn said:
Thanks. I'm a novice at this caper.

You mean I will already have the Eurobird-1 channels even though I could only select Astra-2 on the receiver?
Click to expand...

Those are just "labels" so imagine in your minds eye that the label "Astra2" really says "All Satellites co-located for all practical purposes at 28.2/28.5E".

The Data within that table can either be manually correlated with published listings, for example at _http://www.flysat.com/28east.php or, as Pedro says, simply run an Auto Search/Blind Scan and the Box will do it for you (Provided the Box has that capability: Some do, some don't. Just play around and get familiar with it. A "Network Search" facility might be provided instead and although that isn't quite the same as an Auto/Blind search, it'll help enormously).

Virtually all Receivers, in their factory state, have out of date/incomplete Transponder Lists.
 
We know that box / dish /lnb and the receiver and it does have a good blind scan... shouldn't have any problem getting all of the Freesat channels if the dish is OK. ... the receiver is sensitive & the dish face is good .... the LNB is OK but not the best... if it's off az/el or skew wise then it could miss some channels.

With a 'good' lnb it will get 26e there ... (Dubai One etc.. not a clear MBC )

Also, you can select fta only when scanning so scrambled channels don’t get scanned it.... (delete most of them on 28e)
 
Severn said:
The LNB skew is -14° -- I mean 14° anti-clockwise from the top looking at the concave side of the dish.
Click to expand...

If it is a standard LNB, skew is zero when the LNB connector is at 180 degrees (zero being at the top), your skew should see the connector at about 7 O'clock when looking from behind the LNB towards the dish.

Some LNBs have preset skew, you will need to check if there is a scale on the top of the LNB.
 
the lnbf should be a small grey standard lnbf with markings on top as usual.. the box/ dish combo is around with other badged names ... for 28e it should be fine.
 
There's so much contradictory information on the web about skew.

I've reset the skew so that it's now about 14° clockwise looking from the LNB towards the dish. I guess the cable-connector is now at roughly little-hand 6:30.

That's all I changed, and the Strength improved from 73% to 83%, Quality from 43% to 74%; 714 TV channels instead of 663; Radio was 164, now 197.

But I still can't get BBC-3 or -4. I haven't checked the rest, but those two are the glaring omissions, and, naturally, the ones I most want. This is with Auto Search. Blind Search still wants me to enter the satellite name. (Blind is on the Menu, but it isn't in the manual.)
 
Severn said:
There's so much contradictory information on the web about skew.


But I still can't get BBC-3 or -4. I haven't checked the rest, but those two are the glaring omissions, and, naturally, the ones I most want
Click to expand...

Use the information about Skew as a guide only: Any self-respecting installation will include an empirical "tweak" for optimisation.

I can't help with driving your specific Box, but if the Scan functions aren't doing what you want, simply add the Transponder 10773 H 22000 5/6 manually .............

............. BUT, the reason you can't get BBC3/4 is almost certainly not because the TP isn't listed/stored/being found upon scanning, but because they are not On Air until 19.00 UK time!

As on DTT, they are supplanted during the daytime by CBBC/CBeebies.

So, when 19.00 comes around, you'll be able to view BBC3/4 by selecting CBBC/CBeebies.

Even better, if you scan at that time you'll get correctly labelled BBC3/4 Channels :cool:
 
rai uno said:
............. BUT, the reason you can't get BBC3/4 is almost certainly not because the TP isn't listed/stored/being found upon scanning, but because they are not On Air until 19.00 UK time!

As on DTT, they are supplanted during the daytime by CBBC/CBeebies.

So, when 19.00 comes around, you'll be able to view BBC3/4 by selecting CBBC/CBeebies.

Even better, if you scan at that time you'll get correctly labelled BBC3/4 Channels :cool:
Click to expand...
You know, that did cross my mind, but then I remembered that my FreeView box finds them even when they're not on air, and put it out of my mind. The logic obviously stinks. As I said, I'm a novice, but I'm learning fast, thanks to the experts on this excellent messageboard. Thank you.

(I've almost dumped FreeView because the reception of the channels I can get is unstable here, and I don't get a lot of the offered channels at all.)

I've tweaked the dish again, all settings, and I now have well over 80% both Strength and Quality, with 839 TV channels and 220 Radio, all on Astra-2. Even Blind Search doesn't find EuroBird-1.
 
Severn said:
You know, that did cross my mind, but then I remembered that my FreeView box finds them even when they're not on air, and put it out of my mind. The logic obviously stinks. As I said, I'm a novice, but I'm learning fast, thanks to the experts on this excellent messageboard. Thank you.

(I've almost dumped FreeView because the reception of the channels I can get is unstable here, and I don't get a lot of the offered channels at all.)

I've tweaked the dish again, all settings, and I now have well over 80% both Strength and Quality, with 839 TV channels and 220 Radio, all on Astra-2. Even Blind Search doesn't find EuroBird-1.
Click to expand...


I suspect you may have misled yourself - the number of Channels you report getting is commensurate with everything from Astra 2A,B, C, D and Eurobird being present and correct :)

Have a look at _http://www.flysat.com/28east.php and compare ......... The frequencies from 11222 to 11681 and from 12523 to 12691 belong to Eurobird and I'm positive if you check the names of some of the associated Channels that you will find all is well. Honest, guv!

Also, take particular note of 10773 and look closely at the columns headed VPID, APID and SID and you will see that the only difference between the BBC3/4 and their daytime counterparts is the SID (Which is why your box won't find the correct label until they are on air).
 
Are you saying that you are not receiving a single one of any of these transponders?

_http://www.lyngsat.com/eb1.html
 
Robbo said:
Are you saying that you are not receiving a single one of any of these transponders?

_http://www.lyngsat.com/eb1.html
Click to expand...

He said earlier he gets Russia Today and Al Jazeera so, as per my own last Post, this is not a real issue but a shortly to be rectified misapprehension of nomenclature :cool:

I referred to the Flysat list to demonstrate that they can all be considered "of one company" - but your list will help with isolating example Channels, for sure :)
 
Robbo said:
Are you saying that you are not receiving a single one of any of these transponders?

_http://www.lyngsat.com/eb1.html
Click to expand...
Well, no. But the box allows sorting by satellite, and I see no mention of EuroBird either first or last in the listing, only Astra.

I'm beginning to realise that the box thinks everything it's receiving is from Astra, whether it is or not, because their beams are so close together and it only has Astra details in its memory. Is that it? As I said, I'm learning fast. I hope. (Is beam the right terminology?)

I'll follow this up later, probably after 19:00.
 
Severn said:
Well, no. But the box allows sorting by satellite, and I see no mention of EuroBird either first or last in the listing, only Astra.

I'm beginning to realise that the box thinks everything it's receiving is from Astra, whether it is or not, because their beams are so close together and it only has Astra details in its memory. Is that it? As I said, I'm learning fast. I hope. (Is beam the right terminology?)

I'll follow this up later, probably after 19:00.
Click to expand...

I refer the Honourable Gentleman to the first Paragraph of Post #9 ........... :D

Bad form to quote oneself, but I'm going to anyway!

"Those are just "labels" so imagine in your minds eye that the label "Astra2" really says "All Satellites co-located for all practical purposes at 28.2/28.5E"."

The stored "Satellites" are just tables of Data and can be altered at will. Your Box simply doesn't care which table you select before scanning, neither does it know which Satellite you are aligned to!

And yes, you are learning fast - very well done :)
 
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