Some channels proving to be an issue

J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
In my setup in Javea I am using a 1.2m dish with a Humax Foxsat and in general its works pretty well showing good SS and SQ on most channels.
Lately a few HD channels sometimes give the no or poor signal message and sometimes won't tune in at all. I have the tuner set for Freesat channels in the SE of the UK.

I checked the dish and it seems fine although the LNB had a spiders nest in it so the feedhorn etc. were cleaned. I even installed a new cable (its only 5 meters long) as the old one was starting to show the effects from the sun. I think some of our rental quests had been trying to adjust the dish as my very carefully scribed skew adjustment marks were not exactly lined up so I reset the skew again. (I suspect the guests as I noted the receiver had been retuned in non-freesat mode - I think trying to get non uk channels!). I also tried using another LNB but that made no difference.

There was an immediate improvement and now almost everything comes in as expected although ITVHD sometimes fails in the evening despite the box showing pretty high SS and pretty good SQ most of the time BBC Scotland (108) will not tune in at all (not that I want it but I would like to know why this channel in particular - I also think "Your TV" does the same but cant remember as I am not there at the moment.

For almost all channels SS and SQ readings are well into the green area so I think the dish alignment must be pretty tight. I have also tried another receiver but the results are the same
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
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A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
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What happens if you use the 2.4m dish ?
 
J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
Channel Hopper said:
What happens if you use the 2.4m dish ?
Ah - I only have the 2.4 in Valencia and have always used the 1.2 in Javea - Its strange a most signals a really very strong on it - my only thought is the aim of the dish is not optimised for one of the sats - but its such a job tweaking the alignment as just re-tightening the bolts again can make a difference. Also I only have a signal beeper so would find it hard to optimise the dish further without a proper sat meter.
 
superpascu2

superpascu2

Member
Messages
96
My Satellite Setup
ATLAS HD100 - ASTRA 19,2 + HOTBIRD 13 + 28,2 1.2m famaval
My Location
Alicante
Simple, with 1,2m you have to choose between 2E or 2G. BBC Scotland comes with low signal so if you are compromising 2E to receive ITVHD in 2G that Is the problem.
I also have a 1,2m favaval in Alicante and I had to alligned it to 2E. This way I receive all SD and BBC HD, CH4 HD and CH5HD.

Also take into account that May has the lowest signal in all year.
 
TonyilCapo

TonyilCapo

Member
Messages
66
Location
над холмами и далеко
My Satellite Setup
Dishes: PF (restored Famaval) 2.4m 28.2E, offset 60cm 30W, 90cm 13E+19E, spares 80cm+1.15m
STBs: Vu+ Vu+ Duo2 DVBS2 x4 1TB HDD, GI Avatar2 DVBS2 x2, Vu+Zero
My Location
Central Portugal
Yes, you have to compromise, and if your signal margin/dish is too small you will completely lose some channels. (depending on what channels you prioritize)
 
J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
Maybe best just to leave it as it is. I have no real interest in BBC Scotland anyway and all the other channels come I fine on SD - even in heavy rain its good enough. I am not convinced I have the best feedhorn as its the one fitted to the dish when it was used in the old analogue days - but due to the LNB mounting system on the dish its going to be a difficult one to try something else. I may get an engineer with a decent sat meter to take a look just in case the aim is a bit off.
 
T

the frenchman

Member
Messages
18
My Satellite Setup
Thomson HD
My Location
Spain
I've just fitted a new lnb to a 1.8m dish close to Xativa,I get BBC 1,2,5 around the clock Channel 4 and 5 but no ITV even though I can get ITV+1 and a few other channels I can't get seem ok on their +1 alternatives.BBC radio 1 and 2 but no 3 and 4.Can't get any improvement by turning the lnb and when I thought the dish might need a mil or two turn,as soon as I slackened the first nut the picture pixilated badly.I know the Sky signal page isn't reliable but it's showing quality of around 75-80% but the signal strength is around 50-55% Any suggestions of what to try tweaking?
 
J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
I've just fitted a new lnb to a 1.8m dish close to Xativa,I get BBC 1,2,5 around the clock Channel 4 and 5 but no ITV even though I can get ITV+1 and a few other channels I can't get seem ok on their +1 alternatives.BBC radio 1 and 2 but no 3 and 4.Can't get any improvement by turning the lnb and when I thought the dish might need a mil or two turn,as soon as I slackened the first nut the picture pixilated badly.I know the Sky signal page isn't reliable but it's showing quality of around 75-80% but the signal strength is around 50-55% Any suggestions of what to try tweaking?
That surprises me. Did you get the channels before you changed the LNB? - and is the new one noted for being good for fringe reception? If the answer is yes to the first question then I would be looking at trying another LNB before anything else. I would have thought with a decent 1.8 and using a good LNB you would be home and dry for almost anything in that area. The very fact you lost picture when you simply slackened off a bolt seems to suggest the aim may not be quite optimal so maybe you need to push it slightly in the opposite direction to that which slackening achieves. I know beepers are hardly the best tool to use when adjusting but I find a simple tool like the one I have which is a beeper with a meter helps get a petty good dish alignment especially if you select your channels first - the skew is then another issue and requires very precise alignment - I mark every move with a pencil so I can always return to exactly to any previous setting. I am sure Worbony would check it out for you at a reasonable price if you can't get it better yourself. He has all the kit to ensure its spot on.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Messages
27,835
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK South
Before you start buying anything, have a look at the side of the dish to check it is a straight line (by seeing if the far side disappears at the same time when you move your head). If the dish is in any way warped or damaged on the reflector surface you could be losing signal and adjusting the dish position, or replacing the feed/LNB to compensate won't help.
 
J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
Before you start buying anything, have a look at the side of the dish to check it is a straight line (by seeing if the far side disappears at the same time when you move your head). If the dish is in any way warped or damaged on the reflector surface you could be losing signal and adjusting the dish position, or replacing the feed/LNB to compensate won't help.
Absolutely - and what type of dish do you have? Is it offset or Prime focus? and which LNB are you using?
 
PaulR

PaulR

Dazed and Confused Admin
Staff member
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16,278
My Satellite Setup
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My Location
Wirral, NW UK and Vaucluse, France.
Is the LNB the correct type for your dish? There are two types of dish, off-set and prime focus, and while you can get some signal with the wrong combination it will be far from optimal.
 
Analoguesat

Analoguesat

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Staff member
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46,911
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
If you have had a couplem of hot summers try changing the lnb - the electronics rapidly cook in the Spanish sun and the internal oscillators drift
 
J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
That does not explain why his new LNB is not working properly though - he says he fitted one recently - Until we know if the has the correct dish type and LNB type not much point going further - I suggest we wait until he responds.
 
woborny

woborny

Specialist Contributor
Messages
1,064
My Satellite Setup
1.8m Dish, most Sky and Freesat receivers, 80cm on Illusion motor and Dreambox DM7025, TDT, TDT HD, Ariva 100e,
My Location
Gandia, 70kms south of Valencia, Spain
Joddle:
In our area ITV HD channels tend to be on of the three weakest channels to get (the others being the discovery sd frequency that also carries Quest SD, and the UK TV group - Dave SD etc). Although STV HD is a lot stronger than others.

The prime focus 1.2 you have will be right on the limit for reception of those channels, and as you think , if the dish has beeen moved by renters then that could be you main problem.... especially if the LNB skew has been changed as those three batches of channels are also very very skew sensitive.

Mr French:
"but no ITV even though I can get ITV+1 "
If this is on a Sky HD box, then you may have been allocated on 103 ITV HD... as above ITV HD is very skew sensitive.
(you should be able to get ITV on its non HD channel -sky 803)

BBC Radio 1 and 2 are on a horizontal frequency
BBC Radio 3 qand 4 are on a vertical frequency
They also share their frequencies with a number of BBC TV services also : check bbc parliamnet, bbc one and two wales (SD) for example...
Suggests dish alignment or LNB issues since you can get these channels easily on a 110x120cm dish (heck i just about get them perfectly here on my 80x85cm dish - ok no dish wobble or rain fade margin, but they are there!)
 
J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
Hi and thanks for the above - I think I can consider my problem as "solved" for now as there is little more I can do unless I get Woborny to do a fine turn later in the year once the renting season is over - and even then it may not make that much difference. Re Frenchman - Woborny seems to have most of the possibilities covered so I wait with interest to learn what dish type and lnb he is using.
 
T

the frenchman

Member
Messages
18
My Satellite Setup
Thomson HD
My Location
Spain
Hi and thanks for the above - I think I can consider my problem as "solved" for now as there is little more I can do unless I get Woborny to do a fine turn later in the year once the renting season is over - and even then it may not make that much difference. Re Frenchman - Woborny seems to have most of the possibilities covered so I wait with interest to learn what dish type and lnb he is using.
I have no idea of the dish type,it was given to me by a friend who was about to have his house repo'd It has three arms that come from the dish that hold the LNB (bracket?) The LNB fitted was very old and would only pick up Sky News.Pick,Forces TV,Talking Pictures etc.The LNB I have fitted is an Inverto Black.Jon has tuned a previous dish for me as did his step-father before him,but unfortunately as reasonable as his rates are my current financial position means it'll need to be a DIY job.I never thought of the dish being warped so next time I'm there I'll put a straight edge on it.Might just be coincidence but the heat may be a factor,at first when I fitted it,it was a very hot day.ITV was missing,but later in the day I taped a white plastic bag over the body of the LNB and it appeared.:rolleyes:
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Messages
27,835
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK South
A picture or three speaks a thousand words.
 
J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
It looks like you may have a prime focus dish. This is the case where all three arms are the same length and spaced equally and the lnb is held dead in line with the centre of the dish - also the dish will be totally circular rather than a slightly elongated shape. If this is so can you also confirm it is a one piece dish - i.e. it is made of a single piece of metal rather than made up of 6 segments or petals - some poorer PF dishes are contracted like that and present a whole new problem. If indeed a PF dish then checking for warp is much easier - just fasten a piece of fine string right across the dish going from the edge and across the centre and to the far edge - then fasten a similar string at 90 deg from the first again going across the centre. If the dish is OK the strings will meet at the exactly the same point without any difference in height from the dish centre. You can add further strings at say 30 deg and 60 deg to check the entire dish is OK - if nice and tight all strings must meet in the centre at the same height. If they don't you dish is warped. Now assuming the dish is not warped the next thing to check is if the lnb is actually pointing at the centre of the dish - sometimes the arms or even the bracket can get distorted and this results in the lnb pointing a bit off centre - a simple way is to replace the lnb with a tight beam torch and check that it illuminates the dish evenly and is not pointing off centre - but for this to work you need a torch wichi is round and fits snugly into the lnb holder and these are not always easy to find. Also the torch beam may not be true so try turning it around to check the illuminated part of the dish stays the same - if the beam wobbles then its not going to work.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Messages
27,835
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK South
Or to start with, confirm the dish with a picture and look down the edge for a straight line.
 
J

joddle

Specialist Contributor
Messages
518
My Satellite Setup
2x Pace 2600 C1 (in a box just in case) , 3 x Humax HD Foxstat (2 of which in store as spares) . 3x Manhatten Plaza - Pasat 2.4 PF dish mounted on flat roof with Invacom C120 quad LNB .
My Location
Massanassa, Valencia, Spain
Re CH's last post - Yes that's the easiest way to start - and for us to know if we can help as well :)
 
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