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Still no Nova w/ Humax 5400.. Can u help?

red

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#1
Hello again everyone... sorry to be a pest, but i *still* can't get this thing running.

As outlined in these posts:
http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/showthread.php?t=26468
http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/showthread.php?t=26413

I've got a Humax IRCI5400Z, a Pansat dish/LNB combo and a valid Irdeto card for Nova networks.

I can see the Hotbird just fine, and can search and recieve all sorts of channels, all the ART stuff, IRIB etc. However, no Nova.

I asked over at http://www.humaxsettings.nl and they kindly send me a nice .hnf file. I d/l Humbox 4.1, made a null-modem cable and uploaded successfully.

With the Nova information in the box, all i can get is "E37, Service not available"

I took the boxes (i have two...) to the Nova offices, where they were helpful enough to plug the boxes into their equipment and verify that my cards are active (one was, one wasn't). They activated the second card.

While there, the one box that i had uploaded with the humaxsettings.nl information worked great. It was easily able to pull in all the Nova stations, no problem. With the other (unloaded) i did a "quick search" on Hotbird while there, and of course, it found all the Nova service and it worked great.

I checked the "status" menu for signal strength/signal quality, and it was worse than what i get at home! At home i get (currently) about 60% strength and 74% quality. At the Nova offices, it was 45% for both.

I'm totally stumped here. I have a matched Pansat offset antenna and LNB, and i can tune/get everything else on the satellite just fine. At the Nova office, using my equipment, i can tune Nova just fine.

However, at home i can't. All i can conclude is that i have somehow fried my LNB, and that it is not working right.... since the dish is just a dish, and the LNB is the only part i did not test in the Nova office.

I'm concerned though, that it's NOT the LNB, since it can obviously pull in everything else... it finds all the channels on the other services, and the ones not scrambled come in really great (not that i need another GodTV.. ;-)


So... before i go buy a new LNB (shot in the dark...) does anyone have any insight at all? Once again tonight i'm going to set it on "slow search" to search every possible freq/SR/FEC combo and see what i get...

And above all, thanks a TON for all the help you've already given...

red
 

rolfw

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#2
It could of course be the LNB, but as the Nova frequencies you mention in your earlier posts are all Horizontal but in different bands, it may be worth checking whether you can receive any other Horizontal channels.
 

red

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#3
thanks for answering..

yah, i can get all sorts of horizontals.... at least i think so. i can tune to a station, and get the information about it, and it says it's H....

and i can get freqs both above and below the Nova ones... it's really wierd to me, and it's why i'm so stumped and begging for help ;-)
 

red

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#4
The other question that comes to mind is this...

i can buy a new LNB, no problem. But it's my understanding that LNB are often matched to the dish...

If the problem is that the LNB is not right for NOVA, and i buy another identical one, it will not work either. (tho, this one is "universal" and as i said i get H and V with it on freqs above and below the Nova ones)

OTOH, if i get a different brand/model LNB, it might not be optomized for my dish!
 

red

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#5
interesting note number two.. also AFRTS (AFN, us military TV) is supposed to be on Hotbird too, and i never see that either....
 

red

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OK, i've gotten another receiver.. a Scientific Atlanta D9238 (not sure model #, it's on the roof!) and no luck.

It sees large (80%) signal strength, but no (0%) quality, all the time. no matter what. Even in locations that i can pull 'free' channels with the Humax. Even when pointed at the ground. If i turn the LNB power off, predictably, the strength goes to 0.

So, all i can conclude is that my LNB is wrong or fried.

It is matched to the dish, the LNBF is a Pansat PF-7600

Here's the specs:

"Digital Ready Offset LNBF"
11.7 - 12.2 Ghz L/O 10.75 Ghz
950 - 1450 Mhz N.F. 0.6 dB

The questions are:

1) Can i use any old "universal offset LNBF" to replace it, or must i use a matched Pansat one?

2) Is this the right LNBF for what i'm trying to do?


In other words.... do i need to get exactly this one again? I worry that the LNBF is fine, but incorrect for this application... but everything i read implies that they're pretty standard pieces.

As always, thanks a ton for the help i've gotten on these boards!
 

rolfw

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#7
Looks like just a standard 40mm feed red, so any 40mm LNBF will work, you will also then be able to get the frequencies below 11.700Ghz which you can't at the moment. :)

As a natter of interest, you have got your LNB listed as a single band 10.750 LO in the Humax setup I presume?
 

red

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#8
errr.. am i a complete [email protected] or what?

no freqs below 11.700Ghz would certainly mean that i can't see Nova on 10930.... (tho 11823 and 12169 should be available..)

and no, i had not seen a place anywhere in the Humax settings to tell it about the 10.750 LO........ in fact i haven't a clue what that means (will be googling it in a minute..)

thanks for the link, i'll try to understand what's there.

So, tomorrow morning i'll get a new, universal LNB that can see below 10.930...


thanks!

(ps: this link: http://www.netcentral.co.uk/satcure/lnb.htm was very, very informative... i think i know everything i need to know about LNBF now..)
 

rolfw

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#9
The Local Oscillator of the LNB is used to down convert the frequency of the satellite transmission to a frequency that can be passed through a cable to the receiver, The universal LNB having two different Local Oscillators, one at 9.750 and one at 10.600 means that the receiver can effectively handle a wider bandwidth.

There should be a setting in your configuration menu, perhaps under satellites, motor or LNB.


PS. The link was supposed to be for another thread, had too many browser windows open. :D
 

red

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#10
OK, back to this thread...

Reading through the link i posted above, i find that polarization is switched by voltage supplied.... so, this is no problem. i'll give the LNB 18V to force it into Horizontal all the time.

As mentioned over here: http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/showthread.php?t=26468 i *must* use a fiber-optic segment between the LNB and the receiver(s), so i have to use a single-band LNB.

Right now, i'm thinking that perhaps i need a Triple or Quad Band LNB, as described on LNB page i linked above:

8) "Tripleband" LNB
Normally bolted to separate polariser and feed horn. Works in 2 bands 10.9-11.8 and 11.8-12.75 GHz. Receiver with 0.95 - 2.0 GHz tuner should be used. Noise figures vary.

9) "Quadband" LNB
Normally bolted to separate polariser and feed horn. Works in 2 bands 10.7-11.8 and 11.7-12.8 GHz. Receiver with 0.95 - 2.05 GHz tuner should be used. Noise figures vary.


So, if i get one of these that covers the required freqs, i'll have one signal to send down the cable, over the fiber optic and back to the receiver...

Since all my channels are on Horizontal, should be no problem to force the LNB to H polarisation with the 18V supplied, eh?

I'm a little concerned that it says that they don't normally come in single-unit packages like a typical "universal"......

UPDATE:::::

OK, i went and looked at the Pansatusa site http://www.pansatusa.com/product/LNB.htm and they don't seem to list any LNB that would really do what i need.... the closest is the PW-5000 Wideband (http://www.pansatusa.com/product/LNB/PW5000.htm) but even that requires switching to change from low to high... not cool for what i want to do.

So, how about this... would it be possible to mount a second LNB on my dish? Or i'll even use a whole second dish with another LNB if i have to (no planning restrictions ;-).

The dish i've got is this the F-90U from this page: http://www.pansatusa.com/product/antenna.htm except mine has a triangle-braced feedhorn arm.

So, what to do?!?

UPDATE 2::
I think maybe what i should do is just add a second LNB:
http://www.pansatusa.com/product/LNB/PF-7500U.htm

This one is a universal, but without the tone, it will revert to low-band which is what i want. The only question(s) in my mind to making this work are:

1) How (im)possible is it going to be to mount the second LNB on my dish and get a decent signal with it?
1a) i'd rather not use the second dish, give the choice..

2) Will just Y-connecting the two LNB outputs together result in the right signal range on the cable?


ahh.. i think i see... i'm going to have to do a spreadsheet with all the channels i want, and subtract the LO freq (depending on which LNB..) and see if (which!) frequencies conflict...

Will this work as long as none of the freqs i care about conflict?

Also.. i'm a little bothered by the fact that i've never been able to tune ANY Nova channel... i know my current LNB does not extend down to 10930, Nova's first freq, but why can't i see the stuff on the 11823 and 12169? Do i have to see 10930 first in order to get the range/name/etc of the other channels? This confuses me...


And... once again, thanks for read all of this!
 

rolfw

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#11
Hi Red, I think that you are making this far more complex than it needs to be.

You have a Humax receiver, which is probably expecting to see a universal LNB, so if you present it with a single band 10.750 LNB it will be out on all of the frequencies. When you scan a satellite with these settings, you will get some transponders, but not the ones you expect.

I really do think that spending £20 on a universal LNB will solve your problem, unless that is, I am missing something.


PS. When you took your boxes to the Nova office, I bet that they were using a universal LNB, that would be why the receiver worked, change the LNB, solve the problem, forget Pansat, any universal LNB will do. :)
 

red

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Rolfw, i do entirely agree that this is way more complex...

but i cannot use a universal LNB because once the system is in place (not testing/setup) as now) there will be a fiber-optic link between the LNB(s) and the receivers......this is necessary because there's about a 1km distance from where the TV/receivers have to be and where i have to place the dish..

Therefore, it's not possible for the recievers to send the 22khz tone back "up" the LNB cable, as the fiber optic link is very much one-way.

Also, the LNB power is going to have to be supplied by the FO transciever, and it will be a fixed 18V, forcing the LNB into horizontal polarisation.....

Did all of that make sense?
I probably will get a universal LNB just for the thrill of seeing it actually work, but i don't think i can install it that way.

gah.


but, a nice challenge! ;-)
 

rolfw

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#13
Unfortunately, because this has spread between several threads, some basic, but very important information has been missed, didn't appreciate the distances involved. :)

Have you thought about a cat5 link and placing the receiver close to the dish?
 

red

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Well, not really... i wasn't aware that there's a method for that.

But really, at this point i'd be making progress just by getting the Nova to tune at all, though it looks like that will be a simple case of slap in a universal LNB....

I'm guessing that you don't know of an LNB that span the range i need?

I've done a little thinking and a little simple math, and i think it might work to use two LNB.....

like this:

I'm interested only in Nova, on 10930, 11823 and 12169 (all H)

I use my current LNB (LO10750) and a universal without the tone (LO 9750)

The universal will be able to "see" 10930, and will retransmit on (10930 - 9750) = 1180

The single band will be able to see 11823, retransmit on (11823 - 10750) = 1083,
as well as 12169, with a retransmit freq of (12169 -10750) = 1419

All of these retransmit freqs are handily within range for my FO transciever pair.

the question is, will the LNB not like being connected together in Y fashion on the same cable? I will supply both with 18V, with plenty of amps (2500mA available) to hold them in horizontal polarisation

What happens on those freqs that DO collide? (by collide, i mean where the retransmit for the LNBs is the same...)

oh, wait.. i think i may have answered my own question.. while my freqs don't collide with each other, i have no idea if they collide with anything else.. and it seems likely that they will....

more math!

UPDATE:::

OK, using this page as a reference as to what freqs are transmitted by Hotbird http://www.satmania.com/eng/satchannels/13_0e

I have determined that my three worrisome collision freqs are (1180 + 10750) = 11930, (1083 + 9750) = 10823 and (1419 + 9750) = 11169

Luckily, none of those three potential collision freqs are being transmitted on Hotbird. Here's how close the others are getting to "my" freqs (->)


11179
-> 11930
11200

10815
-> 10823
10834

11161
-> 11169
11179

So, now it comes to mind that maybe these are too close, and will interfere?

I just don't know, and i suppose it will have to be tried out be experimentation.