Just Sharing This Switch Mode Power Supply Woes - New Aerial/Mast head amplifier.

RustySpoons

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I decided to fit a new Log Periodic (My favourite aerial)
At the same time I fitted a Antiference 4 way mast amplifier so I can supply the signal to other rooms.

Testing just the Aerial on it's own I had excellent signal level/quality.

Then I connected up the 12v power supply inline, now Antiference have changed the design of their power supply, they used to come with a linear PSU (PF1)
they are now including a Switch Mode PSU (PS12F) which is a tiny little thing and also does not have the ability to wall mount.

As soon as I plugged this in, my signal was fluctuating, if I moved it I'd drop signal completely. If I turned on a HDMI device the signal would drop.
If I put this power supply anywhere near the TV it would cause interference.

I stripped it down and it's absolutely crap inside, cheap capacitors and no shielding what so ever! I was expecting to see a dry joint on the F connectors or something.

I went outside and removed the Antiference mast head amplifier, went back inside and looped the PSU through (with a modified tap to stop the DC voltage) and the picture was fine as it was with just the Aerial connected to the TV, then I plugged the PSU back in to the mains and the problem started again.

So just replaced it this morning with a Wolsey 4 Way Mast Amplifier which came with a Liner Power supply, signal is better than ever and no issues what so ever.
I used WF100 throughout and Cabelcon compression F's, was a frustrating process as I really did not want to do that cable run again!

Avoid this! I think they are supplying these now due to stupid energy efficiency ratings and all that EuP nonsense. Not like a Linear 100ma PSU costs anything to run!
AP03230-40.jpg
 
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jeallen01

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Typical "Procurement" dept "cost saving" because the new one is cheaper, and "looks the same" on paper - but I hope the Antiference Compliance Engineer (as an ex-one myself) had nothing to do with that decision.

I would point this "issue" out to them and "suggest" that they might want to "revisit" their EMC testing and certification - and their EU Declarations of Conformity (DoC) - because if that PSU is typical of what they are supplying then they could well be breaking the law wherever they are selling it.
 

RustySpoons

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Typical "Procurement" dept "cost saving" because the new one is cheaper, and "looks the same" on paper - but I hope the Antiference Compliance Engineer (as an ex-one myself) had nothing to do with that decision.

I would point this "issue" out to them and "suggest" that they might want to "revisit" their EMC testing and certification - and their EU Declarations of Conformity (DoC) - because if that PSU is typical of what they are supplying then they could well be breaking the law wherever they are selling it.
Interesting, I could run a series of tests but it's on it's way back to Amazon.
But it certainly isn't "Screened" as they describe looking inside it. By certification as you say it is not supposed to emit any interference and is supposed to reject any interference. I should have checked it with my SDR.

I will take this up with them :)
 

jeallen01

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Interesting, I could run a series of tests but it's on it's way back to Amazon.
But it certainly isn't "Screened" as they describe looking inside it. By certification as you say it is not supposed to emit any interference and is supposed to reject any interference. I should have checked it with my SDR.

I will take this up with them :)
Apart from the incorrect description, it is not quite true to say that "it's not supposed to emit any interference and is supposed to reject any interference".

There are no such "absolute" requirements but there are maximum "emission" limits and minimum "susceptibilty" (interference rejection) limits for equipment for domestic and commercial premises.

Both sets of limits are relatively low because those premises generally contain a lot of electrical & electronic equipment, but not much is very high powered/"noisey".

However, the emissions measurement process is generally done at 3m distance between the EUT and the measuring antenna, and that's a lot greater separation than is found between kit in most houses. So anything that is at/near the maximum emissions limits at 3m could well cause interference to stuff that is closer. Then again "some people" can be "generous" with what they accept/declare and certify:rolleyes:.

PS: I got one of the very first Amstrad Sky Digital boxes in the Autumn of 1988, and that caused a lot of interference to the AV kit in the rack around it. Had to replace all the existing cables in/around the rack with decent double-screened coax to suppress the interference (and been doing the same ever since with little or no interference issues - except some audio hum on the Phono i/p from the combined effects of quite a few Class II Double insulated PSUs, but fixed that with a wire from the AV amp to the Earth of the incoming supply to the rack).
 
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RustySpoons

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Apart from the incorrect description, it is not quite true to say that "it's not supposed to emit any interference and is supposed to reject any interference".

There are no such "absolute" requirements but there are maximum "emission" limits and minimum "susceptibilty" (interference rejection) limits for equipment for domestic and commercial premises.

Both sets of limits are relatively low because those premises generally contain a lot of electrical & electronic equipment, but not much is very high powered/"noisey".

However, the emissions measurement process is generally done at 3m distance between the EUT and the measuring antenna, and that's a lot greater separation than is found between kit in most houses. So anything that is at/near the maximum emissions limits at 3m could well cause interference to stuff that is closer. Then again "some people" can be "generous" with what they accept/declare and certify:rolleyes:.
But as a radio ham, if next door had one and it caused any noise in the ham bands I would promptly have ofcom remove it :-rofl2
 

jeallen01

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Not sure whether you mean that next door having a ham radio, or just normal domestic kit. Anyway, to me, that seems like a bit of an "it all depends" situation!

If the kit next door is domestic and is shown to be definitely "compliant" to the relevant standards, then I'm not sure either you or Ofcom could do anything about it, and you might have to live with the situation, move stuff around and/or add some filtration.

OTOH, if the other kit is ham, then I'm not sure what you could do unless you or Ofcom can show that it is causing excessive interference. If that kit is "commercially-built" ham stuff, then there are in-band and out-of-band emissions limits which must be met by the supplier, and by the installer/user in terms of the installation conditions - and, if those have not been met, then there would be a case for Ofcom to require removal of that kit.

However, if the other kit is home-brewed, then that is specifically exempt under the Directives and standards, and so you would have to rely on Ofcom's interpretation of the situation. OTOH, if the situation persisted then, assuming that you are both fully-licenced RSGB operators, then it might be a case of asking for guidance from them (but I would have hoped that, hams being a generally friendly crowd, the matter could be resolved between you and your neighbour!).
 

RustySpoons

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Not sure whether you mean that next door having a ham radio, or just normal domestic kit. Anyway, to me, that seems like a bit of an "it all depends" situation!

If the kit next door is domestic and is shown to be definitely "compliant" to the relevant standards, then I'm not sure either you or Ofcom could do anything about it, and you might have to live with the situation, move stuff around and/or add some filtration.

OTOH, if the other kit is ham, then I'm not sure what you could do unless you or Ofcom can show that it is causing excessive interference. If that kit is "commercially-built" ham stuff, then there are in-band and out-of-band emissions limits which must be met by the supplier, and by the installer/user in terms of the installation conditions - and, if those have not been met, then there would be a case for Ofcom to require removal of that kit.

However, if the other kit is home-brewed, then that is specifically exempt under the Directives and standards, and so you would have to rely on Ofcom's interpretation of the situation. OTOH, if the situation persisted then, assuming that you are both fully-licenced RSGB operators, then it might be a case of asking for guidance from them (but I would have hoped that, hams being a generally friendly crowd, the matter could be resolved between you and your neighbour!).
What I was saying is if this PSU was on next doors property and was causing an issue to my ham radio gear (Which it does in my own home) I'd get it removed, I will speak to the manufacturer about it as I cannot see how it's passed any testing, it's that small there is not enough separation from the primary and secondary circuits.
 

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Use them all the time as an aerial installer. Never had any issues with them (so far). Only thing is.. no screws holes or fixings as already indicated, but a sticky velcro does work well for this.
 

RustySpoons

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Use them all the time as an aerial installer. Never had any issues with them (so far). Only thing is.. no screws holes or fixings as already indicated, but a sticky velcro does work well for this.
Hopefully I just had a one off, but after looking inside one I wasn't prepared to try another.
 

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Might be... or could be a faulty batch. As pretty much everything is going now, no build quality.
 

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Might be... or could be a faulty batch. As pretty much everything is going now, no build quality.
There is a batch number on the side I think, a white sticker with a 4 digit code, I'll mail them.
Be interesting to see if you do get issues on any sites, try a different PSU if in doubt and see if it rectifies it.
Certainly had me scratching my head for a while, I thought it was related to the cables or a dodgy F compression.
 

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What I was saying is if this PSU was on next doors property and was causing an issue to my ham radio gear (Which it does in my own home) I'd get it removed, I will speak to the manufacturer about it as I cannot see how it's passed any testing, it's that small there is not enough separation from the primary and secondary circuits.
As I said above, in that situation, if the PSU was EMC-Standards non-compliant then there would be grounds for it's removal - probably not otherwise.

As for the safety issues, there are an awful lot of non-compliant such devices on the market.

Speak to Antiference, but maybe also contact Trading Standards (via Citizens Advice - they handle all such calls initially on 03444 111 444, or visit them at www.citizensadvice.org.uk) and then maybe also the Electrical Safety First (ESF) charity - here
 

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Totally agree with you @jeallen01
Far too many non-compliant devices on the market!


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20180907_194527.jpg
 

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When I did this sort of work for HSE, our mantra was

CE does not mean "Cannot Enforce"

Anyone can stick compliance markings on products but the supporting evidence lies in the Technical File (Hopefully!)

Of course, CE also means Caveat Emptor. Innit.
 

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It could also be a cheap Chinese knockoff, seen a lot of that stuff lately, cloned receivers, pirated food products, name brand tools that were not from the manufacture.

Stuff like that there.
 

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When I did this sort of work for HSE, our mantra was

CE does not mean "Cannot Enforce"

Anyone can stick compliance markings on products but the supporting evidence lies in the Technical File (Hopefully!)

Of course, CE also means Caveat Emptor. Innit.
I quite agree, and I heard the same "CE does not mean "Cannot Enforce" several times from various HSE inspectors over the years - absolutely right! OTOH, they haven't responsibility for consumer products - that's the very over-loaded and under-funded Trading Standards guys:rolleyes:
 

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I quite agree, and I heard the same "CE does not mean "Cannot Enforce" several times from various HSE inspectors over the years - absolutely right! OTOH, they haven't responsibility for consumer products - that's the very over-loaded and under-funded Trading Standards guys:rolleyes:


Not so clear cut as that. Not by a long chalk.

Yes, TS do consumer products but HSE do "work equipment" ...... the definition of which in various circumstances often caused jurisdictional disharmony between us. ie TS trying to get me to take on cases with stuff that, although it was first identified as an issue in a workplace was clearly and obviously (to me!) a consumer product.

Blurry lines ....

As for resources, I was solely responsible for enforcement for one seventh of the UK ..... and it was only one aspect of my Specialist role.
 

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TS do consumer products but HSE do "work equipment" ...... the definition of which in various circumstances often caused jurisdictional disharmony between us.
Probably "quite so" - and that certainly doesn't "help" in many instances.
OTOH, the product in question is almost certainly a "consumer product", even though it might well be installed by an "employed" person, and so it is patently intended for operation in a "consumer environment". Thus this would be in TS' regime of responsibilities.
 
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My argument exactly. But the TS adamantly declined to see it that way on many occasions.

They tended (in my time) to be jacks of all trades and sometimes unable or unwilling to fully grasp both legal and technical detail, preferring instead to make some issues another person's problem. I hope that's changed.

Heaven knows how they'd cope with a compliance assessment on a new production line with umpteen safety devices, lots of potentially dangerous machinery and evolutionary computerisation when they couldn't deal with eg a fluorescent light fitting starter that had a propensity for glowing itself into flame and molten plastic! At least the CE marking was destroyed!

Apologies for my ire.

Back to Topic ......... :oops:
 
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