The Internal Combustion Engine -RIP

Channel Hopper

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#1
Llew

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#2
Oh well, back to external combustion. Should've stayed with steam.

The Internal Combustion Engine -RIP_1022750
 
Lazarus

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As even most short-term edicts get altered, delayed or simply fall off the table, I shan't hold my breath that this change will happen as planned.

Even if it does, I shall be 83 then, so if still alive and kicking will simply buy a reasonably new petrol engined car at the last minute.
 
Captain Jack

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#4
There's nothing to say that you won't be able to buy any IC cars past 2040. These will still no doubt be produced in countries where this law won't apply and plenty of scope for "grey imports". Not to mention countless of pre-loved* vehicles prior to the fact.

I can't imagine buses and lorries being able to function on anything but IC in 20 years.

*abused
 
Channel Hopper

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As even most short-term edicts get altered, delayed or simply fall off the table, I shan't hold my breath that this change will happen as planned.

Even if it does, I shall be 83 then, so if still alive and kicking will simply buy a reasonably new petrol engined car at the last minute.
The manufacturer will supply spare parts for any model much beyond 2035, knowing the dwindling market of buyers up to the cutoff point.

I wonder what fuel that 'Union of South Africa' locomotive was running on as it chundered into Mayor Khans territory last week.....
 
Channel Hopper

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#6
Ah, environmentally friendly coal by a peek down the tender at 15minutes in.......

With a Fine Feeling for Steam

Unless its a fake, fibreglass cover of course.
 
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Mickha

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#7
Did they discuss Hydrogen cars, or electric/petrol hybrids?
Code:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/93180/hydrogen-cars-new-government-funding-for-fuel-cell-vehicles
And how is all this extra electricity to be produced, as everyone will need to charge their cars, for some considerable time?
I seem to recall that we recently agreed to a new nuclear power plant, with the contract going to China, because we are struggling to produce enough electricity for peak times. Is nuclear waste deemed less harmful than pollution?
There was also a proposal to abolish gas, from all houses, in the near future, meaning more power will be required for heating, and cooking.

I think 2040 is a ridiculous time scale, it would be far better to start with hybrids, until our science has caught up sufficiently to match these proposals.
 
Channel Hopper

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#8
There was also a proposal to abolish gas, from all houses, in the near future, meaning more power will be required for heating, and cooking.

I think 2040 is a ridiculous time scale, it would be far better to start with hybrids, until our science has caught up sufficiently to match these proposals.
Do you have a link to the home gas proposal ?

Hybrids are dual fuel which means they suffer the same problem, but a hydrogen cell hybrid might be the way forward.

The problem with hydrogen is the infrastructure of delivery plus the need to contain in a vehicle, and the element is very good at getting out of a tight space (one reason it is loaded at the last possible minute into rockets)

Electricity is not the long term solution, unless there is a revelation in charging times and the overall milage on one charge, Certainly hauliers, couriers and and coach companies are unlikely to be happy with the latest news.

I did some research twenty years back on methoxymethane and synthesed local production for another unrelated project, and believed that the introduction of ethanol was a reasonable half way approach to continuing with the internal combustion engine, until technology caught up on the components to offset corrosive damage. Now with the green lobbyists putting faux health in the way there is is no way forward to zero emission vehicles that can utilise the components everyboody is running around in/on.
 
2cvbloke

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#9
The problem with hydrogen is the infrastructure of delivery plus the need to contain in a vehicle, and the element is very good at getting out of a tight space (one reason it is loaded at the last possible minute into rockets)
And of course there's the issue of where the hydrogen comes from, as it is at the moment, it's extracted from hydrocarbon fuels (aka, petrol,diesel, paraffin, oil, etc.), doing the electrolysis thing results in a net loss of energy so is completely unsustainable, and even extracting from fossil fuels results in a loss, so, unless we can figure out a much easier way to extract it, it too is a no-go...
 
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#11
Do you have a link to the home gas proposal ?

Hybrids are dual fuel which means they suffer the same problem, but a hydrogen cell hybrid might be the way forward.

The problem with hydrogen is the infrastructure of delivery plus the need to contain in a vehicle, and the element is very good at getting out of a tight space (one reason it is loaded at the last possible minute into rockets)

Electricity is not the long term solution, unless there is a revelation in charging times and the overall milage on one charge, Certainly hauliers, couriers and and coach companies are unlikely to be happy with the latest news.

I did some research twenty years back on methoxymethane and synthesed local production for another unrelated project, and believed that the introduction of ethanol was a reasonable half way approach to continuing with the internal combustion engine, until technology caught up on the components to offset corrosive damage. Now with the green lobbyists putting faux health in the way there is is no way forward to zero emission vehicles that can utilise the components everyboody is running around in/on.
There are many claims that gas central heating boilers will not be installed in new houses, after 2016, but this policy seems to have been shelved, unless it's still being done, on the quiet.
If gas central heating is banned will gas still be used?
I have a gas fire, and gas hob, the cooker is electric, as seem to be most, in fitted kitchens.
I very rarely use the gas central heating, I prefer the gas fire, and our winters are relatively mild.
Once again the problem becomes how will the government supply sufficient electricity if gas is stopped?
I remember warnings, from so called experts, that we would suffer brown outs, if not full black outs, in a few years, due to the electrical outputs not reaching the requirements, especially at peak periods, so how has this situation improved?
 
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pgh13

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#12
And of course there's the issue of where the hydrogen comes from, as it is at the moment, it's extracted from hydrocarbon fuels (aka, petrol,diesel, paraffin, oil, etc.), doing the electrolysis thing results in a net loss of energy so is completely unsustainable, and even extracting from fossil fuels results in a loss, so, unless we can figure out a much easier way to extract it, it too is a no-go...
Agreed; worked on an ammonia plant for many years where they 'reform' natural gas to liberate the hydrogen, but it's very energy consuming and you have loads of carbon (as CO2) to dispose of
 
Channel Hopper

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#13
Agreed; worked on an ammonia plant for many years where they 'reform' natural gas to liberate the hydrogen, but it's very energy consuming and you have loads of carbon (as CO2) to dispose of
How long ago were you working there, and were there any other chemicals the plant was creating, biproducts, wanted or otherwise ?
 
Channel Hopper

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#14
Oh well, back to external combustion. Should've stayed with steam.

View attachment 109231
According to this rather detailed article, you could be right.

Steam vs. Diesel:

The need for complex work, is to have replacement boilers and other key components on locomotives such as the one running to/from London this week would detract from the overall savings but even so it looks like a winner.
 
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pgh13

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#16
How long ago were you working there, and were there any other chemicals the plant was creating, biproducts, wanted or otherwise ?
25 yrs ago - doesn't time fly? Also Nitric acid, ammonium nitrate and compound fertilisers. Used to export the CO2 to Air Products
 
Llew

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#17
According to this rather detailed article, you could be right.

Steam vs. Diesel:

The need for complex work, is to have replacement boilers and other key components on locomotives such as the one running to/from London this week would detract from the overall savings but even so it looks like a winner.
Thanks. A lot of detail to mull over there.

What happened to VW's work on a modern steam-powered car? Vested interests killed it?

WV secret steam powered car
 
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#20
Didn't Jeremy Clarkson do a rant, on Electric Cars, as usual, but came up with some sobering statistics, regarding the environmental cost of producing these batteries?
How long do Electric car batteries last now?
Are there any environmental problems disposing of dead batteries?
By 2040 what is the predicted range, of an electric car, and how long will it take to charge up again?
Given the amount of cars, per household, some requiring 4, or more, how much will it cost to charge up these cars, and how much extra electricity, will need to be produced, if even 50%, of predicted drivers, buy electric cars?
Are companies going to be given perks, to run electric cars, and how much will this cost the tax payer?

Given that scientists believed Diesel was the safest fuel, for the environment, can we trust their new facts?

What about air travel, sea travel, etc.. that use a lot of fuel, mostly for business, and leisure, are these going to be changed?
What about transport vehicles, buses, taxis, long distance transport lorries, working vans, that do a lot of miles, in a day?
 
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