The silly season has started. - sainsbury's christmas ad sparks complaints.

2cvbloke

2cvbloke

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#2
I grew up playing with plugs and sockets, only harm it ever did me was a few burns on the skin... :lol:

Let 'em play, gotta learn which is live & neutral somehow... :-rofl2
 
jeallen01

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#3
This is a "tricky" subject.

Puting you finger on something conductive which is stuck in the socket's "Live" contact tube is, in itself, not generally going to result in too much of a shock unless another exposed/damp part of the body is touching something that is solidly earthed.

That could happen if the kid's other hand was on something like a c/h radiator which could well be next to the socket, and that case the shock current would run from the tip of one hand to the other hand, i.e. straight through the heart. That "really hurts" as I know from my own experience when I was touching one end of the metal chassis on an opened-up amp with one hand and then the fingers of the other hand accidently touched the backs of the pins of the mains switch at the other end!

Also, a kid is physically much smaller,and the skin is softer, than an adult , and thus the resistance is likely to be much lower and both of those factors are likely to increase the shock current - and that's exactly the reason why mains sockets in this country, and also in most parts of Europe, are (and have been for many years), "shuttered" to reduce the possibilities of kids sticking "things" in the contact tubes!

Personally, I think that this sort of advert is, frankly, stupid!:angry:
 
2cvbloke

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#4
Evolution, innit? Survival of the smartest... :lol:
 
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#5
It would not be xmas without complaints about something, but then a certain section of society complain that it should not be celebrated at all
Have the moaners and complainers never heard of, or understood what an RCD is, or does? Perhaps they never test their own.
 
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#6
It would not be xmas without complaints about something, but then a certain section of society complain that it should not be celebrated at all
Have the moaners and complainers never heard of, or understood what an RCD is, or does? Perhaps they never test their own.
Probably not. Too busy sticking those dodgy socket covers in.
 
jeallen01

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#7
@Topper
Ref RCD in European domestic situations - whilst they do provide a lot of protection, they are fairly "coarse" protection at 30mA nominal and can take a finite time to trip. OTOH, the N.American version ("GFCI") has a much lower (5mA) rating and would probably "work quicker" but also be a lot more sensitive to spikes on the lines.

Anyway,
- they are there as a backstop if someone does something really stupid, and people should not be lulled into thinking that everything will always be "OK"!
- more importantly, they are designed to trip if the fault current path is Line->Ground, but NOT if it is Line->Neutral, and so if somehow a kid got his two hands to bridge Line to Neutral (possible, but I grant unlikely !) then an RCD would NOT trip!

Edited: PS: same thing as if you cut through the power cord of a Double-insulated lawnmower or hedgetrimmer (etc.) on a dry day - the over-current breaker in the Line (and/or the fuse in the plug) does trip but the RCD does NOT because the short is Line->Neutral and not Line->Ground
 
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Channel Hopper

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#8
Puting you finger on something conductive which is stuck in the socket's "Live" contact tube is, in itself, not generally going to result in too much of a shock unless another exposed/damp part of the body is touching something that is solidly earthed.

How about the neutral ? The silly season has started. - sainsbury's christmas ad sparks complaints._1063174
 
jeallen01

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#9
How about the neutral ?
Exactly the point I made at the end of post #7 because that would mean that the current path could be through the heart via both hands & arms:rolleyes:

Edited: that said, if there is anactual exposed Neutral conductor near the socket, then jiggling something into a socket contact tube is probably the least of the safety issues in that house/installation:rolleyes:
 
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Channel Hopper

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#10
Neutral is not 'solidly earthed'.
 
jeallen01

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#11
Neutral is not 'solidly earthed'.
"Agreed", but in a decently installed smalled domestic system, the Neutral will (at least in most of the UK) be firmly tied to the Ground at the Consumer Unit, and thus will be only just above Ground potential at the sockets because of the potential created by the current flowing in it.

OTOH, many years ago in a local industrial installation where there were long runs between the switchboards and the sockets in our labs, I sometimes found that the Neutral line was 30-40V above the Ground line :rolleyes:
 
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#12
If parents are that irresponsible as to let a kid poke around a socket then it does not matter what is done to prevent an accident, that accident will happen
 
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#13
"Agreed", but in a decently installed smalled domestic system, the Neutral will (at least in most of the UK) be firmly tied to the Ground at the Consumer Unit, and thus will be only just above Ground potential at the sockets because of the potential created by the current flowing in it.
Not all sockets, the bathroom/shaver socket for example.
 
jeallen01

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#14
Not all sockets, the bathroom/shaver socket for example.
Correct, but bathroom/shaver sockets:
- have double-insulated transformers with a totally floating o/p limited (IIRC) to 20VA max - so very low current at 220-230V
- have shuttered outlets
- are, or should be (probably per IET Regs), mounted quite a long way up the wall from the floor, and thus should be out of reach of small(ish) childen, and so they are less likely to be "attracted" to them!

Can't think (ATM) of any other types of sockets without Earth/Ground contact tubes that you will find in UK houses (unless they have never been rewired since before the early 1950's!), although (as I am sure you know!) you will find a lot of two-pole unearthed outlets on the Continent and further afield.
 
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jeallen01

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#15
If parents are that irresponsible as to let a kid poke around a socket then it does not matter what is done to prevent an accident, that accident will happen
It would only need the parents to be out of a room for a few seconds/minutes for that to give a kid who has seen the ads a little time to find something to "plug into" a socket. Thankfully that rarely seems to occur but "sh1t happens" - and "then what?"
 
2cvbloke

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#16
*BAN ELECTRICITY!!!!*
 
jeallen01

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#17
*BAN ELECTRICITY!!!!*
Like "losing" O2 yesterday (thank goodness I didn't need my GiffGaff phone SIM to work!) - and a lot more besides, and for good:-wow
 
2cvbloke

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#18
Thankfully the o2 thing didn't affect me, but I'm guessing there were many people suffering withdrawals from not being able to see who thumbed them up on faceborg... :-rofl2

But still, it makes me wonder, is it easier to ban thngs to protect the stupid, or, would it be easier just to ban the stupid? :-lmao
 
jeallen01

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#19
...But still, it makes me wonder, is it easier to ban thngs to protect the stupid, or, would it be easier just to ban the stupid? :-lmao
To ban 'em, first you gotta find 'em - and they're "everywhere":rolleyes:
 
2cvbloke

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#20
Well they do tend to make themselves known, so quite easy to find, they're not smart after all... :-lmao
 
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