Help Required Tivusat HD Channels

dranreb69

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Hello everyone

I need some advice, please! (My Italian wife has given me her permission to ask - LOL). I have supplied a lot of information and hope that it is not overkill.

We are just viewers of satellite TV - not technical specialists. After quite a few years of settled viewing of Italian TV channels in SD, we want to move to HD. There seems to be a general move of everything to HD and we have already bought an LG HD television for that reason. Several RAI channels are no longer on their old transponder (RAI 5, RAI Premium etc.).

Our current STB is a Technomate 5402 HD M3 CI Super + and we have an official Tivusat SD card registered to our address in Italy. We both have a personal "Codice Fiscale" (tax code). We use the SD Card with a Samsung CAM 2. We have a fixed dish that is about 1m (might be only 90cm - we cannot remember). It is fitted with three LNBs pointed to Hotbird 13E plus Astra 19.2E & 28.2E. The Astras are to receive UK channels.

We bought an official Tivusat HD card with the official HD CAM from Amazon UK but could not make them work on our STB. The SD card worked with the official HD CAM but the HD card would not work on either CAM. We were refunded by Amazon without any problem. However, if we have to, we would be relaxed about spending the money to buy a different STB; but we do not want to waste money if our Technomate 5402 will work - we only bought it about 18 months ago. Scrapping it would not be eco-friendly but we suppose that one of the many charity shops would accept it as a donation. We had a 7402 HD in the past and we like the brand.

Technomate is not a recognised brand on the official Tivusat web-site. Is there some technical difference between that make and the authorised makes on Tivusat's website? I have a vague recollection of reading that Technomate has its own CI standard but that does not seem plausible. Why would it want to limit its market?

My very limited knowledge does not enable me to know the precise problem. If the answer is to buy an official STB, can anyone recommend one. They look very basic compared to the 7402 HD and the 5402 HD. We want to keep access to Arte HD (French), BFM and i24 News HD (all on Hotbird 13E) plus France 24 HD (Eurobird 9E).

If, like us, you are all still all digesting your turkey, there is no need to rush out a reply! Next year would be good enough; but this year would be better - LOL.
 

Analoguesat

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Morning. I have a Tivusat card & cam which works fine with all the HD channels - its a few years old now but works on all the Tivu channels, both RAI & Mediaset SD & HD. Technomate TM5403 receiver here.

Have you updated the frequency & channel list recently? There have been a lot of changes recently. The current frequency list is here


RAI Premium HD to demonstrate its working:

Snapshot_20201226_122908352.jpg
 

ozumo

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I believe you may need a receiver with a CI+ CAM slot for the newer CAM. Unfortunately neither Technomate you mentioned has such a slot. Is there anything in particular you need other than the ability to receive multiple satellites? As long as the Tivusat receiver has DiSEqC 1.0 switching capability then you will be able to receive all the satellites you currently do.

Did you re-scan the channels on Hotbird, there has been some changes recently.

Don't scrap your Technomate, it's still a popular receiver despite its age. We have a classified section or even sell it on ebay :)

edit: never mind, Analoguesat's post shows that you should be able to get it to work with your 5402 :)
 
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Analoguesat

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Ah - thats interesting about the CI+ cam. If they are indeed moving over to CI+ many older receivers wont work with the CI+ standard
 

dranreb69

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Morning. I have a Tivusat card & cam which works fine with all the HD channels - its a few years old now but works on all the Tivu channels, both RAI & Mediaset SD & HD. Technomate TM5403 receiver here.

Have you updated the frequency & channel list recently? There have been a lot of changes recently. The current frequency list is here


RAI Premium HD to demonstrate its working:

View attachment 133711
Thank you for replying so quickly!

Yes, I know enough to re-scan each satellite and I do it every few months. When RAI 5 and RAI Premium disappeared (the signal strength just collapsed), the first thing that I checked was whether they were moved to a new transponder. A couple of re-scans failed to bring them up on a different transponder. However, I have a list of all the channels in their HD version and that is why I want to upgrade the card from SD to HD. The difference in quality is obvious on other channels where there is no encryption.

I am fairly certain that almost all of the Italian channels are changing to HD and the switch-over has already begun. As I wrote, we are relaxed about buying a new STB to go with an HD card and CAM, if that is the only option. We just want some well-informed advice before we do that.
 

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Does your tv have a CI slot? Many of those are CI+

You may need to add a new frequency into your receiver rather than just doing a rescan. For example all the TGR regionals in sd are now on 11013H 29900 3/4 DVB-S2 8PSK which is a relatively new frequency to be activated.
 

dranreb69

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I believe you may need a receiver with a CI+ CAM slot for the newer CAM. Unfortunately neither Technomate you mentioned has such a slot. Is there anything in particular you need other than the ability to receive multiple satellites? As long as the Tivusat receiver has DiSEqC 1.0 switching capability then you will be able to receive all the satellites you currently do.

Did you re-scan the channels on Hotbird, there has been some changes recently.

Don't scrap your Technomate, it's still a popular receiver despite its age. We have a classified section or even sell it on ebay :)

edit: never mind, Analoguesat's post shows that you should be able to get it to work with your 5402 :)
Thank you for your quick reply!

If I understood correctly, there is a difference between a CI and Cam and a CI+ and CAM? In that case, I do need a new STB?

Analoguesat has a Technomate 5403 but mine is a 5402, which would seem to be an older model.

My problem with the list of approved STBs on the Tivusat website is that there does not appear to be much information about the specifications of the various boxes. I am hoping that someone has bought one and can say how well it works. I know about DiSEqC as I had that on the 7402 HD box. Unfortunately, it became very noisy after seven years and I replaced it with the 5402, which is inferior in my opinion but the 7402 is no longer available to buy new.
 

dranreb69

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Does your tv have a CI slot? Many of those are CI+

You may need to add a new frequency into your receiver rather than just doing a rescan. For example all the TGR regionals in sd are now on 11013H 29900 3/4 DVB-S2 8PSK which is a relatively new frequency to be activated.
Thank you. I will add that and see what happens. However, I will still need to buy the HD card and (possibly) CAM is the Samsung CAM2 does not open the encryption.
 

ozumo

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Thank you for your quick reply!

If I understood correctly, there is a difference between a CI and Cam and a CI+ and CAM? In that case, I do need a new STB?

Analoguesat has a Technomate 5403 but mine is a 5402, which would seem to be an older model.

My problem with the list of approved STBs on the Tivusat website is that there does not appear to be much information about the specifications of the various boxes. I am hoping that someone has bought one and can say how well it works. I know about DiSEqC as I had that on the 7402 HD box. Unfortunately, it became very noisy after seven years and I replaced it with the 5402, which is inferior in my opinion but the 7402 is no longer available to buy new.

Yes CI+ is the newer version of CI and you'd need a CI+ compatible receiver in order for a CI+ card and CAM to work. I believe Analoguesat's receiver is a 5402, and 5403 was just a typo, so there is a non CI+ CAM & card that will work but whether you can still obtain these new is another question.
 

dranreb69

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Thank you. I will add that and see what happens. However, I will still need to buy the HD card and (possibly) CAM is the Samsung CAM2 does not open the encryption.
Thanks for the additional suggestion.

I have checked and I already had 11013H and 11013V installed with signal strength of 92-95%. I have now re-re-re-scanned the whole of Hotbird 13E to see if anything different emerged.

In fact, all the HD versions of the RAI bouquet seem to be on 11013 and I have now found all of the regional versions of RAI3 in the same place. These and most of the HD channels are all encrypted and a reason why I need a new card.

However, the good news is that I have recovered RAI 5 and Premium as they are on 10,992 and I had a different transponder version in my list of favourites. So, a partial result. Thank-you!
 

dranreb69

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Yes CI+ is the newer version of CI and you'd need a CI+ compatible receiver in order for a CI+ card and CAM to work. I believe Analoguesat's receiver is a 5402, and 5403 was just a typo, so there is a non CI+ CAM & card that will work but whether you can still obtain these new is another question.
Once again, many thanks! I am now much better informed about what I need to look for.

I will maintain radio silence while I research the manufacturers' websites for more information about their boxes. If I am going to spend money on new equipment, I want to ensure that I buy the most modern versions in order to have a longer product life.

I am grateful for the information about selling my 5402 on this site. At least I would know that it was going to a good home!

You have all been very kind to answer me so quickly and with such a lot of information! :-clap:D:-respekt
 

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Oops - yup the rx in use here is a TM5402 M3
 

dranreb69

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Oops - yup the rx in use here is a TM5402 M3
Breaking my silence just to mention that there seems to be two versions of the 5402. One is the M3 CI Super+ and the other is the M3 CI+ super+ I have seen photographs of both. I seem to own the "wrong" one!

There are lots of options to buy and I need to sift through them to find one that suits my needs and wallet. I did also find the announcement by Tivusat (in Italian) that was made about the shift to HD output during December and continuing into 2021. It asked the question, "Is your decoder ready?" That would be a "No" from me! :(
 

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The TM5402 does not have CI+ capability no matter what the name might suggest - the "CI+" you will see in the name of some receivers is branding only, not indicative of capability. Confusing - YUP!
 

dranreb69

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The TM5402 does not have CI+ capability no matter what the name might suggest - the "CI+" you will see in the name of some receivers is branding only, not indicative of capability. Confusing - YUP!
Thank you - again - for putting me right! I intend to buy another STB. The initial "one-off" outlay is modest compared with a subscription service. These exchanges have enabled me to form a better understanding of what I need. I have used satellite TV since 2004 but only as a passive consumer once my set-up had been configured. My knowledge remained static while the world was moving on around me! 'Twas ever thus.
 

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I have checked and I already had 11013H and 11013V installed with signal strength of 92-95%. I have now re-re-re-scanned the whole of Hotbird 13E to see if anything different emerged.

In fact, all the HD versions of the RAI bouquet seem to be on 11013 and I have now found all of the regional versions of RAI3 in the same place. These and most of the HD channels are all encrypted and a reason why I need a new card.


We've got a (golden) HD-card from some 3 or 4 years back, and can see all the RAI HD channels on 11013H and 11766V.

The 11013 channels are not in HD, just in DVB-S2. So I'm a bit surprised that you should also have to have a HD-card for that, as technically dvb-s2 is not HD (though (almost?) all HD channels are dvb-s2, I believe).
So you don't have a picture from any DVB-S2 Tivusat channel? Packages: TivùSat - KingOfSat

You have a blue SD-card?
Did you check your card is still activated? Verifica attivazione smartcard Tivùsat - tivùsat


Greetz,
A33
 

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Interesting you dont have the regional stations decoding - they are SD so should work. Excuse the silly question but you do have the card in the cam the right way? Its chip UP in my Tivu cam, not down like in the integrated cam on the rx.
 

dranreb69

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Interesting you dont have the regional stations decoding - they are SD so should work. Excuse the silly question but you do have the card in the cam the right way? Its chip UP in my Tivu cam, not down like in the integrated cam on the rx.
Hello again

My existing SD card works perfectly and is inserted correctly. When I remove the CAM from the slot, the encrypted channels are blocked again. Once I replace it in its slot, they are visible once again.

Here is a notice that I received from Tivusat about the changes. Of course, it is in Italian:

"Caro utente, per te che vedi la TV via satellite con tivùsat,
è in corso un grande cambiamento...

Il satellitare di seconda generazione: ecco come vedere tutto il meglio della tv​

Dal 1°dicembre Nove e Cielo trasmettono solo in HD.
Tra il 3 e il 14 dicembre DMAX, Real Time, Tv8 e TV2000 trasmetteranno solo in HD.
K2 e Frisbee saranno visibili solo con un decoder HD o 4K.
Dal 18 dicembre Rai ha annunciato che i 23 canali del TG Regionale Rai e i canali Rai Radio saranno tutti visibili su tivùsat
ma solo con un decoder satellitare HD o 4K.
Dal 31 dicembre Mediaset trasmetterà via satellite tutti i suoi canali digitali solamente in alta qualità (DVB S2)
e così anche altri canali tra cui La7d.

Questo significa che sarà necessario un decoder satellitare HD o 4K per continuare a vedere
Iris, La5, Mediaset Extra, Mediaset Italia 2, TGCOM24, 20 Mediaset, TopCrime, Focus, Cine34, Boing,
Cartoonito, Cielo, Tv8, La7d, Nove, DMAX, Real Time, K2, Frisbee, TV2000
e tutti i canali Rai Radio e TGR RAI.

Nel corso del 2021 poi, quasi tutti i canali su tivùsat saranno visibili solo ad un dispositivo HD e 4K,
perciò cambia subito il tuo vecchio decoder SD e non ti perderai nulla!"

Since 18 December, the regional channels of RAI 3 are all in HD.


When I view the channel list on my Technomate, they all show as HD now. My SD card and CAM do not open them.
 

dranreb69

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We've got a (golden) HD-card from some 3 or 4 years back, and can see all the RAI HD channels on 11013H and 11766V.

The 11013 channels are not in HD, just in DVB-S2. So I'm a bit surprised that you should also have to have a HD-card for that, as technically dvb-s2 is not HD (though (almost?) all HD channels are dvb-s2, I believe).
So you don't have a picture from any DVB-S2 Tivusat channel? Packages: TivùSat - KingOfSat

You have a blue SD-card?
Did you check your card is still activated? Verifica attivazione smartcard Tivùsat - tivùsat


Greetz,
A33
Hello and thank you for offering more advice.

As I mentioned to Analoguesat, my blue SD card works correctly. However, it does not open HD channels and that is why I want to upgrade. I did buy a gold card and official CAM from Amazon a couple of months ago but they did not work in my Technomate 5402. It does not have CI+ which is the new standard. I am now fairly certain that the problem is the STB and not the card or CAM. They do not work on CI; it has to be CI+

My Smart TV is a LG 50UM7500PLA and it has a CI slot that needs a CAM. I tried my Samsung CAM2 and SD card in it but could not make it work. Possibly it would work with the Gold card and the official CAM that accompanies it. I am still trying to find out more about that
 

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For the benefit of other members here is a Google translation of the message

"Dear user, for you who watch satellite TV with tivùsat,
a big change is underway ...
The second generation satellite: here's how to see all the best of TV
From 1 December Nove and Cielo broadcast only in HD.
Between 3 and 14 December DMAX, Real Time, Tv8 and TV2000 will broadcast only in HD.
K2 and Frisbee will only be visible with an HD or 4K decoder.
From 18 December Rai announced that the 23 channels of the Rai Regional TG and the Rai Radio channels will all be visible on tivùsat
but only with an HD or 4K satellite decoder.
From 31 December Mediaset will broadcast all its digital channels via satellite only in high quality (DVB S2)
and so are other channels including La7d.

This means you will need an HD or 4K satellite decoder to continue viewing
Iris, La5, Mediaset Extra, Mediaset Italia 2, TGCOM24, 20 Mediaset, TopCrime, Focus, Cine34, Boing,
Cartoonito, Cielo, Tv8, La7d, Nove, DMAX, Real Time, K2, Frisbee, TV2000 and all Rai Radio and TGR RAI channels.

During 2021, almost all the channels on tivùsat will be visible only to an HD and 4K device,
so change your old SD decoder now and you won't miss a thing! "

Also the specs for your TV

 
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