TP63 - new ITV regions & Sky FEC changes

[M60]

Thought I'd roll both of these in to a single thread rather than create two.

Two new SID's have appeared on TP63 (11.053H): 20710 and 20720. Both are encrypted, showing ITV London (from the DVB & OP47 subs) and looks like the encryption flag is also set. These could possibly be for TP moves of ITV2HD and ITV4HD.

Also, prior information that on the early morning of the 16th, 12.207V, ie the TP carrying Sky News and Pick etc, will change FEC from 2/3 to 5/6. I'm guessing others will also be changing as has already happened on the two TP's carrying the Sport Active feeds.

It would be interesting if people could post in this thread noted increases of C/N needed, particularly for those on the fringes, between existing 27.5k 2/3 36MHz TP's and those once they've changed the FEC to 5/6. Also, how are people getting these two new SID's now they are configured 8PSK 23.000 3/4 rather than 2/3 with the other ITV HD TP's.

 

[timo_w2s]

Yes, I suspect this FEC change will take Sky News in and out of lock on my 1.8m dish in Helsinki as it's about 6dB at the moment and in theory FEC 5/6 needs a little more than that. 12.207V is one of the weaker Europe beam transponders in Helsinki.

 

[statalite]

Timo you could get sky news on 19.2e right?

 

[M60]

Yes, I suspect this FEC change will take Sky News in and out of lock on my 1.8m dish in Helsinki as it's about 6dB at the moment and in theory FEC 5/6 needs a little more than that. 12.207V is one of the weaker Europe beam transponders in Helsinki.

About an extra 2dB C/N is needed for the FEC change so there'll be a few who fall off the edge of the current coverage for their dish size. Is 12.207V on 2E or 2F as this does seem a bit weaker here in the UK compared to other TP's. It looks like the gains by higher EiRP will be negated by the FEC change.

 

[Burnham Beech]

No difference in signal strength here in the northern French Alps.

 

[timo_w2s]

Timo you could get sky news on 19.2e right?

Yes, it's on 1N so since SES shifted the beam northwards a little it's an easy catch again in the south of Finland. Currently picking it up on a zone 1 minidish and an old TM5500CI box piping it around the house. Further north in the country it's easier to use the 1W Thor 5 version. Luckily both are FTA.

 

[timo_w2s]

About an extra 2dB C/N is needed for the FEC change so there'll be a few who fall off the edge of the current coverage for their dish size. Is 12.207V on 2E or 2F as this does seem a bit weaker here in the UK compared to other TP's. It looks like the gains by higher EiRP will be negated by the FEC change.

I reckon it's on 2F, which is generally slightly weaker than 2E in Helsinki. Lyngsat seems to think so too.

 

[M60]

Think your right, makes you wonder now that the ex-2A Sky TP's have all been carved up between 2E and 2F what, in terms of Sky rented ones, if any, will make it over to 2G? I'm of the thinking 2G is likely to be used primarily for the ex-EB1 TP's and further TP additions in the spectrum vacated by Eutelsat (11.4 - 11.7GHz), we'll find out in due course.

 

[bim]

Sky news and pick still coming in strong here but we have noticed on one receiver we have lost cbs action and horror + 1

 

[Nalleman]

Sky news and pick still coming in strong here but we have noticed on one receiver we have lost cbs action and horror + 1

CBS Action and Horror +1 and a few others changed from 11 222 H to 11 389 H.

 

[Nalleman]

Thought I'd roll both of these in to a single thread rather than create two.

Two new SID's have appeared on TP63 (11.053H): 20710 and 20720. Both are encrypted, showing ITV London (from the DVB & OP47 subs) and looks like the encryption flag is also set. These could possibly be for TP moves of ITV2HD and ITV4HD.

Also, prior information that on the early morning of the 16th, 12.207V, ie the TP carrying Sky News and Pick etc, will change FEC from 2/3 to 5/6. I'm guessing others will also be changing as has already happened on the two TP's carrying the Sport Active feeds.

It would be interesting if people could post in this thread noted increases of C/N needed, particularly for those on the fringes, between existing 27.5k 2/3 36MHz TP's and those once they've changed the FEC to 5/6. Also, how are people getting these two new SID's now they are configured 8PSK 23.000 3/4 rather than 2/3 with the other ITV HD TP's.

Right now 12 207 V shows 97 % SNR. Will update information after change of FEC!

 

[timo_w2s]

Please note the signal levels should not change. All that changes is how much signal you need to successfully decode the channels. FEC is Forward Error Correction, used to help receivers decode channels properly even if there is some unwanted noise in the signal.

So for example, (and I'm just using random percentages as an example as it can vary for different receivers and transmission types) the point at which the picture breaks up might be at, say, 40% today. After the FEC change later in the week the point of failure will change so it could start to break up at 60% instead since there is less error correction data sent in the signal. If you have 90% signal then there is no problem as you still have a 30% safety margin.

But if you only have 50% signal quality today, then later in the week you will still get 50% but that would no longer be enough to decode the channel.

The advantage of reducing the amount of error correction is that you can squeeze more data out of each transponder and so add more channels without extra satellite costs. As the new 2E and 2F satellites have a slightly higher output over the UK compared with the older satellites that can get away with reducing the error correction.

 

[Nalleman]

Please note the signal levels should not change. All that changes is how much signal you need to successfully decode the channels. FEC is Forward Error Correction, used to help receivers decode channels properly even if there is some unwanted noise in the signal.

So for example, (and I'm just using random percentages as an example as it can vary for different receivers and transmission types) the point at which the picture breaks up might be at, say, 40% today. After the FEC change later in the week the point of failure will change so it could start to break up at 60% instead since there is less error correction data sent in the signal. If you have 90% signal then there is no problem as you still have a 30% safety margin.

But if you only have 50% signal quality today, then later in the week you will still get 50% but that would no longer be enough to decode the channel.

The advantage of reducing the amount of error correction is that you can squeeze more data out of each transponder and so add more channels without extra satellite costs. As the new 2E and 2F satellites have a slightly higher output over the UK compared with the older satellites that can get away with reducing the error correction.

Thanks for important information!

 

[Burnham Beech]

In that case all I can tell you is that the signal on 20710 and 20720 is the same as other channels. But I can't clear them with my equipment here.

If in the future there is an FTA or Sky SD channel on these new parameters I can give you a reception feedback from the Northern French Alps.

 

[M60]

In that case all I can tell you is that the signal on 20710 and 20720 is the same as other channels. But I can't clear them with my equipment here.

If in the future there is an FTA or Sky SD channel on these new parameters I can give you a reception feedback from the Northern French Alps.

Can you lock any of the ITV HD regions on 11.097V?

 

[timo_w2s]

Both 11914H and 12148H have changed their FEC to 5/6 overnight.

 

[Burnham Beech]

Can you lock any of the ITV HD regions on 11.097V?

Yes, all receivable and stable. It is clear weather here today, a better test will be later in the week when rain is forecast.

 

[M60]

20710 is now showing ITV2 HD and 20720 ITV4 HD. Looks like TP moves.

 

[bim]

Yes, it's on 1N so since SES shifted the beam northwards a little it's an easy catch again in the south of Finland. Currently picking it up on a zone 1 minidish and an old TM5500CI box piping it around the house. Further north in the country it's easier to use the 1W Thor 5 version. Luckily both are FTA.

Very strong here but under the heading international sky news. You don't get the same adverts.

 

[Sim B]

Sky News and Pick are now unwatchable here after the FEC change. GGrrrrr...
Quality has dropped from about 60% to 40% - made all the difference.
I guess a bigger dish is my only option?