Unicable + Diseqc switching

S

sector_d

Member
Messages
63
Location
Portugal
My Satellite Setup
Octagon SF4008 with RTL usb DVB-T Tuner
Clarke Tech 5000 (semi-retired), X-trend ET-9200 (semi-retired), Nokia 9600 :) (well retired)
My Location
Portugal
Hello,

I'm increasingly interested in Unicable techonology in order to have (at least) the most used SAT in all receivers. But I don't want to be limited by one SAT, so I wondered:

- What if I made the unicable investment in just one SAT (the big dish) and then keep on using the disecq switches to multiplex the source IFs to the receivers (diseqc switches dedicated to each receiver).

I mean, as far as the 4x 1 diseqc switch is concerned, it does not care about the contents of each input IF. It can be from a universal output LNB or a unicable output (which is really similar, but with much less transponders). So, what I want is to have a 4x1 switch with one input connected to unicable (which will be shared to other receivers) and on the other inputs other Universal LNB sources.

This will mean that I must use a "cascade" configuration on the receiver: first select the Diseqc input and then tell the software to tune based on a Unicable LNB. In the future, I could even replace all inputs of the diseqc by unicable LNBs, so I can easily share them with more rooms/ diffeent diseqc dedicated switch by room. Receiver would have to send some diseqc commands after zapping and then tun based on Unicable (fixed IF Tp.)

In short: can I use diseqc switch to select multiple satellites' LNBs (unicable type) ? I can't see as of now any real reason not to, but my receiver grays out the diseqc selection when I select LNB type Unicable.
 
S

sector_d

Member
Messages
63
Location
Portugal
My Satellite Setup
Octagon SF4008 with RTL usb DVB-T Tuner
Clarke Tech 5000 (semi-retired), X-trend ET-9200 (semi-retired), Nokia 9600 :) (well retired)
My Location
Portugal
Well, I did some tests with a 4x1 diseqc switch and an Inverto SCR. I can say that the enigma2 box can sucessufuly switch the diseqc BEFORE using the unicable fixed frequency. This way, one can use a diseqc switch to use both a Unicable SAT and other 3 legacy nomal universal LNB sources. Or, we can use the diseqc to switch amongst 4 different UNICABLE sources.

I think this is the best of 2 worlds. Unfortunately, my other 2 boxes (non-linux) seem to have problem with sending Diseqc commands before unicable commands. One, I believe is a bug on software, the other I think that the brand software developers simply did not think of this - diseqc is grayed out with Unicable. But I think it makes lot of sense to use both combined, in order to have more satellites available, either legacy or unicable.
 
PaulR

PaulR

Dazed and Confused Admin
Staff member
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16,563
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-----------See sig-----------
My Location
Wirral, NW UK and Vaucluse, France.
An interesting project. Thank you for telling us your results so far.
 
A

Alberto V M

New Member
Messages
8
My Satellite Setup
Dish: 60cm with motor / LNBF: Unicable+Universal+UHF
My Location
Brazil
Hello! I am trying to a little addition to Sector_d subject.

I have a dish with motor and an LNBF with 1 UHF in (TR) + 1 Unicable out (CSS) + 1 Universal out (Legacy).
** TeleSystem - Universal Css 4x1 LNB - Ts41 CSS



My idea is to connect Universal and Unicable outputs from Ts41 LNBF to a Diseqc (dish + motor), and one other Universal LNBF from another dish. Than use Universal to one receiver, and Unicable to others.
** Added image

However, I am not understanding how to split signal to many receivers. Any idea? It could be possible to do?
Thanx!!
 

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A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
626
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
Well, only a unicable signal can be split in a normal way, the legacy signal cannot be split normally as no 4 tuners can be in control simultanuously.
You have to take that into account first in your setup.

I am not familiar with the LNBs on your dishes, so cannot comment on that.

The use of the motor on multiple tuners is an issue also, I would say. What are your plans as to what tuner you want to control the motor with?

Greetz,
A33

Edit: BTW, Welcome to this forum!
 
A

Alberto V M

New Member
Messages
8
My Satellite Setup
Dish: 60cm with motor / LNBF: Unicable+Universal+UHF
My Location
Brazil
So A33...

I believe that if I will lock all tuners in the same channel (TP), there is no problem to share Legacy signal. Because I can not sent to the LNB 13v and 18v at the same time.

My idea:

DISH1: Legacy (1) + Unicable (2) LNB
DISH2: Legacy (3) LNB

1) To connect (1) to Diseqc LNB1 (DISEQC1)
2) To connect (2) to Diseqc LNB2 (DISEQC2)
3) To connect (3) to Diseqc LNB3 (DISEQC3)
2) To connect Diseqc Receiver to Motor.
3) To connect Motor to a split to 3 decoders.

DECODER1: Configure to use DISEQC1 (motor control only here)
DECODER2: Configure to use DISEQC2 (Unicable 1)
DECODER3: Configure to use DISEQC3

I will not share any LNB between decoders. So... each decoder will be giving signal for a different LNB.
This will cause any problem to send "commands" to Diseqc?
Thanx.
 
A

Alberto V M

New Member
Messages
8
My Satellite Setup
Dish: 60cm with motor / LNBF: Unicable+Universal+UHF
My Location
Brazil
One more thing!

If Unicable is a registered trademark for the protocol, now available over EN50494 specification, and the protocol uses DiSEqC 1.1 commands to realize multiple (up to eight) signals via one cable.

Maybe, I could connect some LNBs to a Diseqc, than configure each decoder to connect to a different LNB... I could be doing something like a "handmade" Unicable. Don't?
 
Tururu

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
Messages
2,809
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
In the VU + you do not have option of configuration simple installation with motor and unicable LNB.
Do you want to lower the signal unicable with that of a mixed normal LNB, confirm?
Normal and unicable LNB can not be mixed.
The normal LNB sends the signal of all the TPs in the band and polarity that the receiver has selected.
In unicable, the LNB sends the SCRs that are active in the receivers, by the cable low those frequencies like a TP (+/- 20Mhz.).
In which I have Megasat unicable II LNB Diavolo of 24SCR, starts at 1005Mhz. And we see it sticking with normal TPs
-------------
En los VU+ no tienes opcion de configuracion instalacion sencilla con motor y LNB unicable.
Quieres bajar la señal unicable con la de un LNB normal mezclada, confirma?
No se pueden mezclar LNB normal y unicable.
Los LNB normales mandan por el cable la señal de todos los TP en la banda y polaridad que tenga seleccionado el receptor.
En unicable, el LNB manda los SCR que esten activos en los receptores, por el cable baja esas frecuencias como si fuera un TP (+/- 20Mhz.).
En el que tengo Megasat unicable II LNB Diavolo de 24SCR, empieza en 1005Mhz. y vemos que se pegara con los TP normales

LNB unicable: Megasat Unicable II LNB Diavolo
------------------9750Mhz 10600
scr1 ="1210" ==> 10960 11810
scr2= "1420" ==> 11170 12020
scr3= "1680" ==> 11430 12280
scr4= "2040" ==> 11790 12649
scr5= "1005" ==> 10755 -----
scr6= "1050" ==> 10800 -----
scr7= "1095" ==> 10845 -----
scr8= "1140" ==> 10890 11740
scr9 ="1260" ==> 11010 11860
scr10="1305" ==> 11055 11905
scr11="1350" ==> 11100 11950
scr12="1475" ==> 11225 12075
scr13="1520" ==> 11270 12120
scr14="1565" ==> 11315 12165
scr15="1610" ==> 11360 12210
scr16="1725" ==> 11475 12325
scr17="1770" ==> 11520 12370
scr18="1815" ==> 11565 12415
scr19="1860" ==> 11610 12460
scr20="1905" ==> 11655 12505
scr21="1950" ==> 11700 12550
scr22="1995" ==> 11745 12595
scr23="2085" ==> -------12685
scr24="2130" ==> -------12730

Aqui podemos ver 10 SCR activos del unicable comentado, tienen un ancho de 20Mhz+/- (10700-11800Mhz).
Si mezclamos con un LNB normal, se machacan las señales, usan las mismas frecuencias +/-.
----------
Here we can see 10 active SCRs of the unicable commented, have a width of 20Mhz +/- (10700-11800Mhz).
If we mix with a normal LNB, the signals are crushed, they use the same frequencies +/-.

LNB unicable, 10 SCR activos de 24 (Unicable_SCR.jpg)
Unicable_SCR.jpg

LNB normal (Vertical 13Voltios), TP activos (LNB normal Individual_Vertical.jpg) Astra 19.2ºE.
Unicable_SCR_1.jpg


PS: I do not have a second LNB unicable and play with DiSEqC switches/No tengo un segundo LNB unicable y jugar con conmutadores DiSEqC.:-doh
 
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Tururu

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
Messages
2,809
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
He stayed in the inkwell.
The tuner settings for normal LNB and for unicable LNB, can not be configured for the 2 options.
The management of the DiSEqC switch I have in pending tasks.
--------
Se quedo en el tintero.
Los tuner los configuras para LNB normal ó para LNB unicable, no se puede configurar para las 2 opciones.
El manejo del conmutador DiSEqC lo tengo en tareas pendientes.

In the market you have to convert old multi-connected installations of 2 satellites in unicable 2 satellites, changing the switchboard, are expensive, more than 200 € on average, 8 users / tuner, also provides service for normal (Legacy)
IDLP-USS2OO-CUO1O-8PP ==> 160€ now.
Unicable Multischalter INVERTO Black IDLP-USS200-CUO10-8PP (für 2 Satellite
---------
En el mercado tienes como convertir viejas instalaciones multiconmutadas de 2 satelites en unicable de 2 satelites, cambiando la centralita de conmutacion, son caras, mas de 200€ de media las de 8 usuarios/tuner, tambien da servicio para sintonizadores normales (Legacy)
IDLP-USS2OO-CUO1O-8PP ==> 160€ ahora.
Unicable Multischalter INVERTO Black IDLP-USS200-CUO10-8PP (für 2 Satellite



PS: Dos años mas tarde, producto descatalogado/Two years later, discontinued product.
 
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A

Alberto V M

New Member
Messages
8
My Satellite Setup
Dish: 60cm with motor / LNBF: Unicable+Universal+UHF
My Location
Brazil
This is a good explanation Tururu... thanks a lot.
Now this topic has lots and very valuable informations!
We are collecting something very rare to find in one place.

However, back to the top of this topic, we have also a Sector_D message about Unicable + Diseqc working in real world:

"Well, I did some tests with a 4x1 diseqc switch and an Inverto SCR. I can say that the enigma2 box can sucessufuly switch the diseqc BEFORE using the unicable fixed frequency. This way, one can use a diseqc switch to use both a Unicable SAT and other 3 legacy nomal universal LNB sources. Or, we can use the diseqc to switch amongst 4 different UNICABLE sources.
I think this is the best of 2 worlds."

So... again... the theory do not allow, but we have Sector_D practice doing Unicable + Legacy working well.

My Unicable works only with:
- Unicable 1: 1210 MHz
- Unicable 2: 1420 MHz
- Unicable 3: 1680 MHz
- Unicable 4: 2040 MHz

ASAP I will try this configuration with an Azamerica s2005. It is able to select Unicable/Universal + Motor (Diseqc 1.2) + Diseqc. I already connected information that Unicable + Motor works fine with this decoder.



Hope we can find an answer to Sector_D problem:
"Unfortunately, my other 2 boxes (non-linux) seem to have problem with sending Diseqc commands before unicable commands."

Regards!
 
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A

Alberto V M

New Member
Messages
8
My Satellite Setup
Dish: 60cm with motor / LNBF: Unicable+Universal+UHF
My Location
Brazil
Oh! Azamerica decoder s2005 has 2 tuners... than we can connect 2 LNBs. It works like 2 decoders inside a single one.


 
Tururu

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
Messages
2,809
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
The post you comment (the law does the strip, is 2013), is an advanced configuration.
Set up the unicable LNB with DiSEqC 1.2 (using later usals).
Setting up ......
2 satellite satellites with SCR1 (1210) Astra 3B 23.5E / Hot Bird 13.0E
2 satellite satellites with SCR3 (1680) Astra 3B 23.5E / Hot Bird 13.0E
At no time does Unicable Legacy (LNB normal).

If you use a unicable+legacy LNB and lower 2 cables to the receiver with 2 tuner.
You could connect it seamlessly to 2 tuner (A/B ).
The VU+DUO2 (for example) allows this configuration.
Setting up a second tuner to use a second cable from a double LNB of a motorized installation, by default the LNB is normal and you will have no problems.
The first configure it in advanced for unicable in DiSEqC 1.2 that uses usals.
To configure in an advanced motor, is to register all the satellites that you want to use, if they are little, perfect, if they are many, much much work.
------------------
El post que comentas (lo ley hace la tira, es del 2013), es una configuracion avanzada.
Configuras el LNB unicable con DiSEqC 1.2 (usando luego usals).
Configurando........
2 satelites satelites con SCR1 (1210) Astra 3B 23.5E/Hot Bird 13.0E
2 satelites satelites con SCR3 (1680) Astra 3B 23.5E/Hot Bird 13.0E
En ningun momento usa Unicable+Legacy (LNB normal).

Si usas un LNB unicable+legacy y bajas 2 cables hasta el receptor con 2 tuner.
Lo podrias conectar sin problemas a 2 tuner (A/B ).
El VU+DUO2 (por ejemplo) permite esa configuracion.
Configurar un segundo tuner para usar un segundo cable de un LNB doble de una instalacion con motor, por defecto el LNB es normal y no tendrias problemas.
El primero lo configuras en avanzado para unicable en DiSEqC 1.2 que use usals.
Configurar en avanzado un motor, es dar de alta todos los satelites que quieras usar, si son poco, perfecto, si son muchos, mucho mucho trabajo.

I do not understand the need to use unicable with motor.?
With fixed antenna, it is simpler.
---------
No entiendo la necesidad de usar unicable con motor.?
Con antena fija, es mas sencillo.
 
A

Alberto V M

New Member
Messages
8
My Satellite Setup
Dish: 60cm with motor / LNBF: Unicable+Universal+UHF
My Location
Brazil
I can use Unicable to share signal to more than one decoder, right!?
However, both rooms will be able to watch only channels from satellite selected from main decoder (motor controller).

I want Legacy signal because, many times, when people tries to configure decoders with Unicable, they are not able to find some channels and others are added twice. They must to connect first to a Legacy LNB to configure correctly, than later reconnect the decoder to Unicable LNB.

If I have at least the option to configure a single decoder to use Legacy (from Diseqc), than I will be able to add new sats and reconfigure decoders, without need to change cables in the LNB.

And I could add one more dish pointing to a fixed sat.
 
Tururu

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
Messages
2,809
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
OK understood.


When looking at prices, I saw the LNB inverted of 24/32 well of price (60 €), when consulting the shop indicates if wanted programmed or asked the programmer apart (150 €).

Buy the Megasat Unicable II LNB Diabolo for 40 € plus shipping.
It has 24 SCR modern standard (EN50607), the first 8 also valid for the old standard EN50494 (old equipment).
12 are configured in a receiver, 8 divided into 3 more equipments, 4 for rooms / kitchen, currently free, waiting to change old receivers when they are broken (DB800S-HD clone), not being compatible with unicable if more than 3 equipment are punctured To the LNB, alone or 2 teams well.:-doh

With the VU + DUO2 (4 tuner sat) the channel blind search with Unicable does not work.
In VU + Solo4K and VU + Ultimo4K blind search does not work, no matter what LNB you have.:-rofl2
The list of channels is common for all (Enigma2)

PS: In my case, the engine and the DiSEqC are left for the rest of the family.:-lol
--------------
OK, entendido.


Al mirar precios, vi el LNB inverto de 24/32 bien de precio (60€+/-), al consultar la tienda indica si queria programado o pedia el programador aparte (150€).

Compre el Megasat Unicable II LNB Diabolo de 40€ mas portes.
Tiene 24 SCR norma moderna (EN50607), los 8 primeros validos tambien para la norma antigua EN50494 (equipos viejos).
12 estan configurados en un receptor, 8 repartidos en 3 equipos mas, 4 para habitaciones/cocina, libres actualmente, esperando cambiar receptores viejos cuando se rompan (DB800S-HD clon), al no ser compatibles con unicable si estan pinchados mas de 3 equipos al LNB, sola o 2 equipos bien.:-doh

Con los VU+DUO2 (4 tuner sat) no funciona la busqueda ciega de canales con Unicable.
En los VU+Solo4K y VU+Ultimo4K no funciona la busqueda ciega, da igual el LNB que tenga.:-rofl2
La lista de canales es comun para todos (Enigma2)

PD: En mi caso, el motor y los DiSEqC sobran para el resto de la familia.:-lol
 
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