Upsizing NAS Hard Drives ?

Vipersan

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So ..many of you will know of my obsession with collecting 'data' ...
and that I love NAS ..
My latest addition was a ReadyNas 4 bay unit ...which were fitted with 4 x 4TB hard drives WD red ..
Configured in raid X ..which is netgears version of raid5 ..
So ..useable space is always less than the drives actual size ...and in raid as a rule of thumb ...one of the 4 drives provides the stripeing thus you lose the storage capacity of one ...
Thus we are looking at 3x 4tb ...less a few hundred gb.
The actual capacity being more like 11 tb ..
Enough for most folk I guess ...but not for me ...
I'm therefore going to upgrade again to 8tb drives ..but not all at once as these are about £300 each..
So to my questions.
I intend to replace each 4tb one drive at a time...
(less financial pain that way)
lol
I assume I can hot swap one drive first and allow the NAS to rebuild the missing drive...using only 4tb of the new 8tb drive ?
Once the rebuild is complete ...in theory I can repeat this until all 4 x 4tb drives are physically replaced at which point I assume I can reboot and the unit will re-sync giving access to more or less 8tb on each of 3 of the drives (one will of course be lost to stripeing as is the rule..)
Eventually I will have approx 22 > 23 tb of accessible space ?
Do I have the method and the concept correct ?
A question for NAS experts I guess ..
Hopefully one day 8tb wd red drives will fall ..but for the moment ...this excercise is going to cost as much as a central heating system...just for 4 drives ..
about £1200 when complete..
Ouch !!
 

Vipersan

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Interesting fact about the WD 8tb Red drives ..which are optimised for 24/7 use (Nasware Firmware)
Instead of a air filter filled spaces ...they are sealed and filled with helium in order that the platters can be closer packed/stacked..
path of least resistance ...helium offers less resistance than air at the spin speeds.
This is neccessary because they needed to get 7 platters in a space designed for a maximum of 6 ...in order to maintaing the drives physical size footprint.
I do hope they are right about this ..
lol
 

Analoguesat

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Theoretically yes that should work.

Ive never trusted hot swaps so I power my nas's off when a drive needs changing
 

Analoguesat

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Interesting fact about the WD 8tb Red drives ..which are optimised for 24/7 use (Nasware Firmware)
Instead of a air filter filled spaces ...they are sealed and filled with helium in order that the platters can be closer packed/stacked..
path of least resistance ...helium offers less resistance than air at the spin speeds.
This is neccessary because they needed to get 7 platters in a space designed for a maximum of 6 ...in order to maintaing the drives physical size footprint.
I do hope they are right about this ..
lol

If you even start getting a squeaky voice your WD Red has sprung a leak :D
 
A

archive10

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I assume I can hot swap one drive first and allow the NAS to rebuild the missing drive...using only 4tb of the new 8tb drive ?
Once the rebuild is complete ...in theory I can repeat this until all 4 x 4tb drives are physically replaced at which point I assume I can reboot and the unit will re-sync giving access to more or less 8tb on each of 3 of the drives (one will of course be lost to stripeing as is the rule..)
The first bit, yes, but why I am not sture why the unit would suddenly re-size the partitions and go for the full 8 tb of each drive...
I have a ReadyNAS duo (old stuff, I know), and it certainly doesn't resize automatically when I tried last time.
But things (software) may have changed - perhaps your ReadyNAS does things differently?
 

Vipersan

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The first bit, yes, but why I am not sture why the unit would suddenly re-size the partitions and go for the full 8 tb of each drive...
I have a ReadyNAS duo (old stuff, I know), and it certainly doesn't resize automatically when I tried last time.
But things (software) may have changed - perhaps your ReadyNAS does things differently?
This is what I find most worrying ...
..and why I asked..
Does anyone have a definate answer ?
ie..
has anyone actual tried upsizing nas drives ?
 

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When I *added* a new drive to my Synology, it took about 24 hours to do an "integrity check" after which, my logical volume was expanded to accommodate the size of the new drive. They are all the same size, though, so less things to go wrong.
 

Vipersan

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Analoguesat

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Yes - only change one drive at a time & be absolutely certain the background rebuild stuff has finished before you attempt to change another one. Better to wait an extra day rather than corrupt the data.
 
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Vipersan

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Recieved my 2 x 8tb HDs today ..
The first was hot swapped around 5 PM ..
..and took about 1 hour to rebuild 1% ...
So looks like a long haul ..
roughly 100 hours per drive (4 days each ...) and this will have to be repeated another 3 times ...and I havent even ordered the other 2 yet ..
Eeeek ..
Still ...I've started so I'll finish ...probably sometime in early 2017
rgds
VS
...good job I have my usb3 16TB cold store ..so at least I can access my media locally ..
;)
 

Vipersan

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Maybe only 3 days in total ..
Checked this morning about half an hour ago ...and close approaching 30% complete ..
Still a long time but I will note the final score for future reference ..
rgds
 

Vipersan

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So ..
looks like I will be opening my piggy bank sooner than I would have liked ..
The other 2 8tb drives will have to wait..
The 8tb drive completed 100% and everything went smoothly
took anout 3.5 days in total..
But ..
already hit a snag I think.
The readynas 104 architecture apparently does not and cannot address 4 x 8tb drives fully ...so looks like this server will have to remain maxed out with 4 x 4tb drives..
But am now considering a new toy.
The QNAP TS-453A ...which I am hoping will accomodate 'fully' 8tb drives ..though I'm finding it difficult to get a definitive answer ..
Anyone used this rather elegant looking and highly functional beast ?
Which does HD upscaling / downscaling on the fly and is capable of 400mbs ps having 4 ethernet ports ...
Can be used as an HTPC with 2x hdmi out ..
remote control ...
and will host at least 2 virtual operating systems ..
In short ,,
It looks 2 b the dogz nadz ...
but is it ?

This video more or less confirms 8tb drive use ..
The guy is a bit hyper but entertaining and educational ..
I swear to Higgs he actually orgasms at one point..
lol
 
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Vipersan

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Well fwiw my TS-453A has arrived ..
certainly an attractive lump ...but it will be a while before I upload anything to it..
Currently (as yet) only have 2 x 8tb drives ...so hopefully finances permitting will have a full raid 5 system up and running early in the new year ..
I have fitted the 2 I have and am therefore limited to jbod ,raid zero or raid 1 ...and I see no point in going down those routes only to have to start again..
Damned expensive hobby this ..
lol
 

Vipersan

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so ..
now spent all my Christmas money ...
beans on toast for a while ..
Yes I'm impatient ...but got a good deal on 2 more 8tb drives ..
Currently in the nas so ...fully populated.
I was a bit disappointed as I was expecting about 23tb of useable space for data but the system grabbed a bit more than expected for snapshots etc ..
Still I am over the 20tb hurdle ..
21.4 to be exact ..
I guess it will take a while to syncronise but progressing faster than the Readynas..
Started around 5:30PM and currently a total of 8.3% ...
that's quite fast and should be ready sometime late tomorrow..
The only thing I'm really disappointed with is that although there are 2 hdmi ports neither will handshake with my old Panny Plasma (1080p) ..
The QNAP is capable of 4k output and 7.1 sound ...thus a free standing HTPC with NAS capability ..but unless there is a way to make it handshake I may well be upgrading my TV next year ..
Where does the ride end ??
cest la vie..
at least I can use it through the Himedia Q10 to play my media ...and access the functionality via pc or laptop..
but it does rather make the provided remote control a bit useless for the moment.
rgds
VS
 
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A

Archive-8

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That should be quite impressive lump when built up.

Is it the qnap or the readynas that has the 21tb?

It puts my 1.4tb's to shame.
 

Vipersan

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The QNAP is 21tb ..
and the reason I bought it really ..
the readynas doesn't natively address such large hard drives ...hence the upgraded hardware..
My readynas is populated with 4x 4tb ..giving about 12tb of useable space ..
both units are effectively raid 5
(though readynas calls it Xraid)
In combo ...I have over 30tb on 2 units..now.
:D

What I really like about the QNAP is that you can add more 'dumb' drive bays connected via usb3 and expand further with 'full' integration not adding a seperate raid ..

(though they do 'recommend' seperate volumes..single volume expansion should only really be attempted _before_ the data is added)
hope that makes sense..
Qnap UX-800P 8 Bay Turbo NAS Expander Box/Unit
 
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A

archive10

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@Vipersan: don't worry if the QNAP is not all-singing, all-dancing.
In my 35 years with tech I've come to conclude one thing: Most things do a few things well, none, and I do mean none, do all even remotely good.
My ReadyNAS does "the storage thing". And does it well.
It used to do Logitech media serving. But that's not supported anymore, my other logictech devices are starting to not work anymore, and the apps are removed from app stores.
So it's now a NAS only thing.

If you start using devices for a gazillion functions, you're prone to upgrade screw-ups, unwanted features, client support that evaporates, and general "unsupportedness".

I'm now in the camp where I buy one device for a really limited number of services, and get the one that does those well.
Instead of buying a NAS that spotwelds under water in addition to transcoding DVB-T signals coming in, I get the NAS that does NAS-stuff well. :)
 

Vipersan

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@Vipersan: don't worry if the QNAP is not all-singing, all-dancing.
In my 35 years with tech I've come to conclude one thing: Most things do a few things well, none, and I do mean none, do all even remotely good.
My ReadyNAS does "the storage thing". And does it well.
It used to do Logitech media serving. But that's not supported anymore, my other logictech devices are starting to not work anymore, and the apps are removed from app stores.
So it's now a NAS only thing.

If you start using devices for a gazillion functions, you're prone to upgrade screw-ups, unwanted features, client support that evaporates, and general "unsupportedness".

I'm now in the camp where I buy one device for a really limited number of services, and get the one that does those well.
Instead of buying a NAS that spotwelds under water in addition to transcoding DVB-T signals coming in, I get the NAS that does NAS-stuff well. :)
You make some good points st ...and the 'spot weld under water' made me chuckle..
I only really bought it for it's NAS functionality and ability to use larger drives ...so I'm happy if it does that ..
anything else is a bonus ...
Though I would like to be able to access the dashboard on my TV rather than have to power up a PC to do it...
really todays NAS leaders are Synology and QNAP ....
and apparently qnap ranks quite highly ...
It is doing what it says on the tin ..so far ...
and I'm suitably impressed with the rate of syncing for 32tb ..
Not even midnight and already at 17% ...
That's so much faster than the readynas..
which going off previous syncing would have taken approximately 7 to 8 days..
;)
 
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