Usals problem & alignment

R

Red alert

Member
Messages
145
My Satellite Setup
1m Gibertini XP, Edision Mio 4K on Stab HH100
My Location
Manchester
Hi All,

Just set up my 1m dish on stab hh100 motor. Have line of sight from 15 west to 42 east. I set up on thor and got the peak signal SNR of 74% with tweaking. My problem is i can only pick up sats between 28 east and 5 west. On 13 east I have to raise the dish to get better signal and on 5 west i have to lower the dish to improve the signal. So I tried increasing the elevation on the dish them move the dish and motor mount slightly east, but didnt make too much difference. So I am stuck on how to align the dish. If i am pushing up on the dish at 13 east to get stronger signal does that mean i need to move the mount slightly left/right then increase the elevation of the dish without losing the west satellites? The pole is plum.

I am using Edision receiver with openvix.

Any help appreciated.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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The north/south pole clamp has to be moved - finely - towards where the dish has to be raised, to correct the misalignment. Then compensate with adjustment of the longitude settings in the receiver to get the motor to stop on the satellite position(s)

Assuming the pole is plumb the other possible issue is the declination setting, though this should be an even finer adjustment following the north/south since you are close to getting the arc correct.
 
R

Red alert

Member
Messages
145
My Satellite Setup
1m Gibertini XP, Edision Mio 4K on Stab HH100
My Location
Manchester
The north/south pole clamp has to be moved - finely - towards where the dish has to be raised, to correct the misalignment. Then compensate with adjustment of the longitude settings in the receiver to get the motor to stop on the satellite position(s)

Assuming the pole is plumb the other possible issue is the declination setting, though this should be an even finer adjustment following the north/south since you are close to getting the arc correct.
When you mention north/south clamp needs moving do you mean elevation changes on dish and motor or moving the dish and motor left/right? So I send the dish to thor then raise the dish elevation slightly or move them both slight east since i have to raise the dish on eastern sats?? Dish pointer states declination angle of 22 and motor elevation of 53.4. Right now the declination angle is just below 22 degrees so that I can compromise between 5 west and 13 east, when I raise the dish to 22 i lose 5 west. When i lower the dish 5 west becomes stronger and i lose 13 east. If i move the north/south pole do I increase or decrease my longitude in the receiver?
 
Channel Hopper

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Dish motor left/right.

Experiment with the longitude settings until you stop on the - correct - satellite
 
R

Red alert

Member
Messages
145
My Satellite Setup
1m Gibertini XP, Edision Mio 4K on Stab HH100
My Location
Manchester
Dish motor left/right.

Experiment with the longitude settings until you stop on the - correct - satellite
Thanks. So if I move dish motor left/right do I need to make adjustments to dish elevation? Should this be done at 0.8 west or on the satellite that needs the dish to be raised?
 
M

Mickha

Super Moderator
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Messages
5,455
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
You have to follow the basic rules, for setting up a motorized dish. Using USALS makes it easier.
1 Make sure the pole is absolutely plumb, and secure.
2 Find your exact Latitude, and Longitude, you can use an app or sites like dishpointer.
3 Set your motor dish and LNB to 0
4 Enter your Latitude, and Longitude, into your receiver, negative Longitude readings = West, positive = South, Manchester is around 2 West.
5 Using your receiver send your dish/motor, to a suitable satellite, 1W is a good position.
6 Manually adjust your dish/motor to maximize the signal quality, on 1W
6 Now you need to fine tune, by sending your motor to the furthest West satellite, then the furthest East satellite, and not the signal strengths, to fine tune always send your dish/motor back to the satellite you set up on, 1W, make fine adjustments, then send to the furthest East, and Furthest West, to check if you've improved the signal quality. Keep doing this until you're happy with the readings, then check all other satellites.
 
R

Red alert

Member
Messages
145
My Satellite Setup
1m Gibertini XP, Edision Mio 4K on Stab HH100
My Location
Manchester
You have to follow the basic rules, for setting up a motorized dish. Using USALS makes it easier.
1 Make sure the pole is absolutely plumb, and secure.
2 Find your exact Latitude, and Longitude, you can use an app or sites like dishpointer.
3 Set your motor dish and LNB to 0
4 Enter your Latitude, and Longitude, into your receiver, negative Longitude readings = West, positive = South, Manchester is around 2 West.
5 Using your receiver send your dish/motor, to a suitable satellite, 1W is a good position.
6 Manually adjust your dish/motor to maximize the signal quality, on 1W
6 Now you need to fine tune, by sending your motor to the furthest West satellite, then the furthest East satellite, and not the signal strengths, to fine tune always send your dish/motor back to the satellite you set up on, 1W, make fine adjustments, then send to the furthest East, and Furthest West, to check if you've improved the signal quality. Keep doing this until you're happy with the readings, then check all other satellites.
I followed this setup to begin with and used thor 0.8 as reference point. The problem I am having is with the last point. When I made slight changes to the north/south pole mount I wasnt sure if I should also change the dish elevation? For example knowing i had to raise the dish at 13 east to get better signal I sent the dish back to thor then moved the dish/motor mount slightly east (at 0.8 west) and increased dish elevation slightly which produced good results for 13 east but hardly any signal for 5 west. What I didnt do when I moved the dish/motor mount is change the longitude in the receiver, maybe thats where I am going wrong, I havnt changed it since i entered the value from dishpointer. I will try that tomorrow and report back
 
A

a33

Specialised Contributor
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640
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XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
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NL
First thing with such asymmetric reception east-west that I would check is:
Are the dish and motor exactly in-line, while the motor is at zero-position?

Furthermore, use the so-called "modified motor angles", to make it easier for yourself.
See e.g. How To Install a USALS Motor - Condensed Version
(Edit: post #14 there is about the modified angles)


That would make axis-elevation and dish-declination fine-adjustment process less troublesome, I guess.

greetz,
A33

Edited.
 
Last edited:
M

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,455
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
There are diagrams, showing various problems, you can experience when tracking the satellite arc:
satellite arc.jpg
 
R

Red alert

Member
Messages
145
My Satellite Setup
1m Gibertini XP, Edision Mio 4K on Stab HH100
My Location
Manchester
There are diagrams, showing various problems, you can experience when tracking the satellite arc:
View attachment 128271
Thanks this is what I was looking for. The problem i have matches North/south axis too far east and too far west. Not sure which as the sats i pick up are 28, 19, 13, 9, 0.8, 5 (west). But signal on eastern sats not good l get only 30% snr on 28 east :oops:. I assume it is because north/south axis is too far west because I am raising the dish on eastern sats according to the diagram.
 
Lazarus

Lazarus

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One not easily noticed reason for skew-wiff tracking is displacement of the dish bracket to motor stub clamps as you tightened them up. If not done gradually by tightening each nut in turn, bit by bit, there can be distortion, leading to slight but hard to spot twisting out of normality.

Thanks this is what I was looking for. The problem i have matches North/south axis too far east and too far west. Not sure which as the sats i pick up are 28, 19, 13, 9, 0.8, 5 (west). But signal on eastern sats not good l get only 30% snr on 28 east :oops:. I assume it is because north/south axis is too far west because I am raising the dish on eastern sats according to the diagram.
 
R

Red alert

Member
Messages
145
My Satellite Setup
1m Gibertini XP, Edision Mio 4K on Stab HH100
My Location
Manchester
One not easily noticed reason for skew-wiff tracking is displacement of the dish bracket to motor stub clamps as you tightened them up. If not done gradually by tightening each nut in turn, bit by bit, there can be distortion, leading to slight but hard to spot twisting out of normality.
Yes, this is my next check. I need to check plum of motor brackets and dish brackets. I believe that with could be culprit along with north/south mount.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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One not easily noticed reason for skew-wiff tracking is displacement of the dish bracket to motor stub clamps as you tightened them up. If not done gradually by tightening each nut in turn, bit by bit, there can be distortion, leading to slight but hard to spot twisting out of normality.
The Stab rotor has a casting line on the shaft, making it relatively easy to check the alignment with the elevation clamp of the Gibertini dish.
 
Lazarus

Lazarus

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Several small Dishes.
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The Stab rotor has a casting line on the shaft, making it relatively easy to check the alignment with the elevation clamp of the Gibertini dish.
Glad to hear it - the equivalent line on Moteks and their clones is really hard to see, so I run some Tippex down it to highlight it when I hang a dish.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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I give no guarantee the casting line is where the alignment should be though. :D
 
Trust

Trust

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@ Red alert : Check it like this after sending the Stab "to zero"

haaks.jpg
 
R

Red alert

Member
Messages
145
My Satellite Setup
1m Gibertini XP, Edision Mio 4K on Stab HH100
My Location
Manchester
@ Red alert : Check it like this after sending the Stab "to zero"

View attachment 128275
Thanks for the help guys. The culprit was the dish mount in the motor and the motor mount on the pole. Signal improved from 28 east to 5 west. Though it seems i cant pick up some channels in 26 east when i did the scan it picked up 28 east instead. Still cant pick up anything on 42 east. Cant pick up 15 west but that could be because chimney in the way. So i still think it needs tweaking somewhere. Here is my setup. Sorry about photo rotation. I have also included alignment on back of dish before fixing it and the other is back of motor mount on pole after i fixed that
 

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Lazarus

Lazarus

Tout Rond Bon Oeuf
Staff member
Messages
25,870
My Satellite Setup
80cm Motorised.
Several small Dishes.
Much else.
My Location
North York Moors
Thanks for the help guys. The culprit was the dish mount in the motor and the motor mount on the pole. Signal improved from 28 east to 5 west. Though it seems i cant pick up some channels in 26 east when i did the scan it picked up 28 east instead. Still cant pick up anything on 42 east. Cant pick up 15 west but that could be because chimney in the way. So i still think it needs tweaking somewhere. Here is my setup. Sorry about photo rotation. I have also included alignment on back of dish before fixing it and the other is back of motor mount on pole after i fixed that
Good job.

Now, for BADR, Edit the "Satellite" from 26E to 25.5E ........

In general, you might find that altering the USALS Longitude a tenth or three helps (Try increasing from nominal, then decreasing. Observe which is best) - It's a lazy but effective way of countering very small misalignments from the comfort of your shack.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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That pole is going to require some serious guying from the motor mounting bracketry.
 
Terryl

Terryl

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OpenBox X5 on a 1 meter motorized dish.
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Custom built PC
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Don't measure the level from the motors bracket mounting screws they can/could be off a bit, you must do it at the pole it's self, it must be as vertical as possible left to right, and front to back with a spirit level, and should not change when the motor is full East and full West.

If the weight of the dish causes it to dip a bit when turning East/West, you will/can miss the outside birds.

How is the pole's tripod mounted into the ground?
 
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