What setup to use ?

S

Steve Stras

Member
My Satellite Setup
W2 astra
My Location
Strasbourg
Hello guys

Just recently discovered your site and it's a goldmine of information - thanks to everyone.

I'd previously been watching English language TV via Canal plus (I live in Strasbourg, France) but since I travel a lot for work I started picking up satellite receivers and subscriptions. So far I've picked up Digitalb from Pristina, Tring from Tirana, Total TV from Belgrade and a satfree from London. So far I've installed everything except Total TV (which I'll have a look at next week. I have one 85cm dish with a single LNB pointing at eutelsat 16 and another 60cm dish pointing at Astra 28.2. I knew nothing about satellite equipment and installation until a week ago when I started reading this site but I managed to erect both dishes and get them pointing at the correct sats within a couple of hours.

But, what I'm left with is multiple receivers piled next to the tv along with having to change the LNB feed between Digitalb and Tring when I want to watch the other (I assume this is a polarity problem as I've tried splitting the singnal from the single LNB and using the loop but both will not function off a single LNB)

My, almost perfect, French wife has told me I have to sort out the 'bordel' of receivers and to get rid of one of the dishes.

Bearing in mind I have Digitalb, Tring and Total TV which should point at eutelsat 16 and Satfree pointing at Astra 28.2 what are the best dish setup options ? Maybe a triple output LNB for eutelsat and an offset LNB for Astra ? Or is Astra too far away to do that ? (12 degrees) Or would it be better just to buy a motor ? I may try and add a viasat system when I go to baltic states in November but I'm not sure if my 85cm dish in Strasbourg would pick up the Nordic beam.

As for the receivers is it possible to do some sort of amalgamation ? I've seen things like Technomat which appear to have multiple card slots where you can run several systems from the same receiver. They also seem to have some sort of motor management system which appears great as long as you can find South and know your exact long and lat.

I may add to the system later as well, I have trips coming up to Bosnia and Ukraine and I know I won't be able to resist buying something. A word on Tring though, I bought a 12 month sub in the Tring shop in Tirana and last week some of the EPL games didn't work (no access) One of my colleagues in Tirana went down to the shop in the week and they've now, apparently, sorted the problem but will see.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Steve
 
Splitting feeds doesn't work.

As for Loop Through, it will work if you put the "slave" box in Standby.
 
you might be best to go motorised, what satellites do you want 13,16,19, 28.2e ?

you can go for a receiver like a technomate they are straight forward to use with motors and some have 2 card slots and cam slots if needed.

you mentioned viasat down in your location you will need a very large dish for the nordic beam if you buy a prepaid card from latvia or one of the countries.

there is also the 90cm wave frontier dish which you can have multiple lnbs, so this maybe a better option and you will have instant switching between channels using diseqc switches
 
Thanks Tivu, I'll do that.

Wod, I'm interested in 5, 16 and 28.2. For Viasat I looked at the footprint for the Nordic BSS beam and Strasbourg appears to be on the border where the required dish size increases from 60cms to 120, I suppose the signal must drop off very steeply, another 25kms and the footprint disappears from the map completely. I had a quick look at the frontier dish and I'll check it out in more detail, though it might be too big for my balcony, I live in a listed building and have only one place where I can hide a dish from view, the 85cm dish only just fits in the space and I don't think I'd be able to accomodate the reflector, this would be a great shame as it ticks every box for my needs.
 
wod said:
you might be best to go motorised, what satellites do you want 13,16,19, 28.2e ?

you can go for a receiver like a technomate they are straight forward to use with motors and some have 2 card slots and cam slots if needed.

you mentioned viasat down in your location you will need a very large dish for the nordic beam if you buy a prepaid card from latvia or one of the countries.

there is also the 90cm wave frontier dish which you can have multiple lnbs, so this maybe a better option and you will have instant switching between channels using diseqc switches
Click to expand...

If you are reasonably technically adapt, and perhaps also thorough and patient, I'd say you get a lot of mileage from a Wavefrontier. Perhaps the T55 id not big enough for the Nordic BSS on 5E, but you could try at least (they're not that expensive). I'm getting great results on 5W, 5E, 13E, and 19E from a single dish. It also does 28.2E, but I need (and therefore have) a separate 180 cm for that.

Re footprint, it's not an exact science - it all depends, and sometimes you get good results even though you may technically be on the fringe. I have had no probs at all taking 28.2E with full strength on box meter on a 64 cm Triax in the Haute Savoie. Trial and error is the best way forward.

Problem with the receivers is that sometimes a single box can't (at least officially) do all the encryption schemes required (i.e. you can't get a Conditional Access Module that slots into your box). Especially Viasat and Sky (NDS) are difficult to get working on vanilla STBs. And you seem to have picked up quite a few different boxes. So you may find that you need several boxes, and a SCART or HDMI switch to interface to you TV.

Each box needs a separate feed to the LNB; so you either pull cables from each box to the relevant LNB (multi-output), or you use a distribution switch with, say, 4 sat input, and 4 receiver outputs. Then each box can see all LNBs as required. With multiple proprietary boxes, I'd say you'd be best off running cables to multi-output LNBs (quads), possibly running one of the outputs through a diseqc switch, and use the latter with a generic FTA receiver such as the technomate for the majority of free-to-air channels (including the 28.2E ones). Funny enough, that's the set-up I have here :)

Check out some of the T90 discussions on this forum, and scale down to something manageable for your first install. Much of the technique involved also applies to T55s.

The "Bordel" of receivers should go into furniture you keep you tv on (they're not that big), or can be hidden in a cupboard with judicious use of SCART/HDMI switches and/or extenders, and an IR extender.
 
Thanks for your reply, st1. Ok, it seems clear the T90 is a good product so I think I'll look at buying one of those (i'll raise the housing a bit to accommodate the extra size and see if anyone notices) with a quad lnb for the channels I pick up off 16 and then have additional lnbs for 28.2 and 5 and I suppose I should probably add lnbs for 13 and 19 whilst I'm installing, why not ?

Like I said in my first post this is my first foray into satellite equipment and whilst I was able to erect and align my 60cm and 85cm dishes without significant problems (though it did take a while for me to align the 85cm with eutelsat 16) I think erecting and aligning a T90 is a significant advance on that. Still, I will give it a go.

For the receivers It seems clear I'm going to have to retain at least some of them whilst also adding a technomat. I'm still trying to understand what cards I can use in a technomat but will try to condense the number of boxes where I can.
 
Guys
An update on this; So I've bought a T90 and I will commence installation when I know I'm free for a whole weekend (I sourced the dish via a dealer here in Strasbourg - they had to look it up and place an order, apparently they've never sold one in Strasbourg before)

I've now accumulated a few more receivers - Digiturk from Turkey and something from Ukraine, which is unopened as yet. I'm now looking at the amount of cabling I need to feed into the apartment and I'm thinking if there is someway I can avoid running 8 separate cables from the LNB outputs through to my 8 separate receivers. I will buy a technomate shortly for the free to air stuff but the majority of receivers I will need to keep because of the different encryption systems. So, my question is this; is there any type of distribution unit(s) I can buy that I can place on the exterior of the property, by the dish, which will allow me to run my 8 LNB feeds into one cable and then another unit inside where I can then branch off cables to my 8 different receivers ? Or is this a stupid question ?
 
Steve Stras said:
Guys
An update on this; So I've bought a T90 and I will commence installation when I know I'm free for a whole weekend (I sourced the dish via a dealer here in Strasbourg - they had to look it up and place an order, apparently they've never sold one in Strasbourg before)

I've now accumulated a few more receivers - Digiturk from Turkey and something from Ukraine, which is unopened as yet. I'm now looking at the amount of cabling I need to feed into the apartment and I'm thinking if there is someway I can avoid running 8 separate cables from the LNB outputs through to my 8 separate receivers. I will buy a technomate shortly for the free to air stuff but the majority of receivers I will need to keep because of the different encryption systems. So, my question is this; is there any type of distribution unit(s) I can buy that I can place on the exterior of the property, by the dish, which will allow me to run my 8 LNB feeds into one cable and then another unit inside where I can then branch off cables to my 8 different receivers ? Or is this a stupid question ?
Click to expand...

An 8 in 1 out DiseqC Switch will work on the outside to condense the 8 feeds to 1 cable entering the property I'm not sure what you could use to then convert the 1 feed to to 8 seperate recievers though.

Roland
 
Steve Stras said:
Thanks Tivu, I'll do that.

Wod, I'm interested in 5, 16 and 28.2. For Viasat I looked at the footprint for the Nordic BSS beam and Strasbourg appears to be on the border where the required dish size increases from 60cms to 120, I suppose the signal must drop off very steeply, another 25kms and the footprint disappears from the map completely. I had a quick look at the frontier dish and I'll check it out in more detail, though it might be too big for my balcony, I live in a listed building and have only one place where I can hide a dish from view, the 85cm dish only just fits in the space and I don't think I'd be able to accomodate the reflector, this would be a great shame as it ticks every box for my needs.
Click to expand...

Have a look round in the forum there be guys from were you are from they can give you dish size there picking up viasat you might get a way with a 1m dish for viasat
 
If you're using a DiSEqC switch you can only see one of the inputs at any given time.
To do full 8x8 mux/demux you need a pretty substantial distribution unit. Each needs 4 inputs from LNB (lo/vertical, hi/vertical, lo/horizontal, hi/horizontal)
But are you sure you need 8 feeds at same time?
Firstly, count the number of sats you need - some of your services may run off the same sat.
If you have, say, 5 sats, your're suddenly much better off.
Secondly, if you never watch more than one thing at the time, consider swapping the cable and use a DiSEqC switch.
If you do want to run 8 receivers in paralel, you need eight cables...
There is the option of stacking, which is a 2-signals-in-1-cable arrangement; this requires good quality cabling. You'd have 4 cables then.
 
Oh, BTW, what LNBs did you order to go with the WF?
As you write, some of the services you want may be on the same sat, so you want twin or quid LNBs there.
(if you want to have all signales switchable, you'll need quttro LNBs - but realistically I don't think that's what you want.)

On a hunch, I think you're best off getting a 8-1 DiSEqC switch, and some means of switching the cable for the LNBs (say, a BNC patchbay), and use one STB at the time. (Just make sure you have powered off the STBs before switching feed!)
Simplest to start with, and can be expanded if and when needed.
Easiest alternative is to bite the bullet and run a bunch of cables...
 
Guys, thanks for the replies

ST1
For the moment i'm still running my two dishes (one 85 and 65) and I will look to erect the WF in the middle of November. I haven't got as far as buying LNB's for the WF yet but on my existing dishes I'm using an Inverto black premium quad on the 85 point at 16e and the same, but a twin, on the 65cm pointing at Astra 28.

Once I get the WF up and running I'm going to be only looking at 4 sats, each single feeds with the exception of W3C (once it comes on line next week) which will have three feeds (I will lose the ukranian one I think)

After thinking about this for a while I think you're right with the easiest alternatives and I will run the bunch of cables. Any advice on the LNBs ? I like the Invertos I have and they were a great improvement on the original ones which came with the dishes.

Martin, I've never come across anyone in my region who's pointing in that direction but according to the footprint the Nordic signal I should receive in Strasbourg is better than anywhere in the UK by a considerable margin, bearing in mind some in the UK are receiving Nordic streams on an 85cm dish I'm optimistic. I will do some tests once I get the WF up and running.

Roland, thanks for the advice and I will let you know how I get on.
 
Invertos work well. For sats where you are not on on fringe mosr generic lnbs will do too.
Only thing to observe is that some lnbs don't have enough neck to allow proper adjustment in-out wise.
Some wont even fit the holder (more noticable on quads - my viasat provided sharp wouldnt fit the plastic holder).
I used invertodv- they work for me. With your sat spread you probably wont need the narrow ones. The latter works great but are susceptible to rain drops on the surface of the feedhorn cover.
 
Sounds like you will need a Quattro lnb on each satellite lnb you put on the t90 and a large multi switch to be able to view either of the receivers without undoing cabling each time.

what cards do you have as you may be best to configure a couple of Linux receivers to use a couple cards in each ?
 
ST1, The only two sats which are close together, which I will use, are Sirius and W3A (for use with Viasat and Digiturk) which I believe are only about 2 degrees apart and I was assuming I would need to use narrow lnb's to collect both sats on the WF. The only other sats I'm planning on using for the moment is 16e and 28e.

Wod, all the cards I have so far have been purchased from the official distributer in the country for which they are meant to be viewed. For example, I bought a 12 month subscription to Tring in Tirana (conax based) along with one of their receivers, a Digitalb subscription (conax based) in Pristina along with their receiver, a Total TV sub (not sure about the card but it's tied to the box) with box from Belgrade and also digiturk and some Ukrainian system from Ankara and Kiev repsectively. I also have a freesat box and will add something for Viasat shortly. All the boxes I have appear to be fairly low quality.

My other half is beginning to question my sanity, there is a steady stream of equipment arriving at the apartment and I've been spending a fair amount of time installing it. She has also pointed out that I hardly ever watch any of these systems and I have to say that I enjoy installing this stuff more than I do watching it. Is this a common maladie ? Of course, I could have retorted with something along the lines of the amount of money she spends on shoes which she then appears to never to wear, which is an awful lot more money than I spend on sat equipment. Though in the end I decided to keep my mouth shut:)
 
You can use some of the cards witha Dreambox and external readers like a Smargo or Omnikey Cardman. That way you can use the majority of your cards in one receiver.

The only one you won't be able to use is the NDS encrypted Total TV one as thats paired to the box and no one has figured out how to get the box key to allow it to be used in a Linux based box.. All the others should work using OSCam as the card reader.

Used with a Motorised dish you should be able to use everything. If you connect the Total TV receiver to the LNB pass through you should be able to use it aslong as the Dreambox is switched off :D

Nano
 
Steve Stras said:
ST1, The only two sats which are close together, which I will use, are Sirius and W3A (for use with Viasat and Digiturk) which I believe are only about 2 degrees apart and I was assuming I would need to use narrow lnb's to collect both sats on the WF. The only other sats I'm planning on using for the moment is 16e and 28e.
Click to expand...

yes - but do not have experience myself with the T90 and LNB-spacing. Perhaps someone else can advise?

Steve Stras said:
My other half is beginning to question my sanity, there is a steady stream of equipment arriving at the apartment and I've been spending a fair amount of time installing it. She has also pointed out that I hardly ever watch any of these systems and I have to say that I enjoy installing this stuff more than I do watching it. Is this a common maladie ?
Click to expand...

Nono, no need to worry, this is perfectly normal. It's called a hobby.
People who collect stamps never seem to send any letters, do they?
People restoring motorbikes don't seem to drive around on then as means of transportation, do they?

Steve Stras said:
Of course, I could have retorted with something along the lines of the amount of money she spends on shoes which she then appears to never to wear, which is an awful lot more money than I spend on sat equipment. Though in the end I decided to keep my mouth shut:)
Click to expand...

You are a wise man indeed. :)
 
nanochickin said:
You can use some of the cards witha Dreambox and external readers like a Smargo or Omnikey Cardman. That way you can use the majority of your cards in one receiver.
Click to expand...

Ah - even better than a swapping cables!

(But don't you loose the custom-made EPGs on some of these services?)

nanochickin said:
The only one you won't be able to use is the NDS encrypted Total TV one as thats paired to the box and no one has figured out how to get the box key to allow it to be used in a Linux based box.. All the others should work using OSCam as the card reader.

Used with a Motorised dish you should be able to use everything.
Click to expand...
...or a 4-way DiSEqC switch, I pressume?
nanochickin said:
If you connect the Total TV receiver to the LNB pass through you should be able to use it aslong as the Dreambox is switched off :D

Nano
Click to expand...
 
nanochiken,

I will buy a dreambox or a technomate once I get my head around which one I should buy. As ST1 points out I may lose the EPG but the only schedules I really look at are for premiership football, and I get the majority of those from an external website.

ST1
Thanks for the support:) To be honest the EPG's on my albanian and serbian systems are in their native languages so it's difficult to follow anyway. That said, this morning I called into the office (it's a holiday here in France) and borrowed a heavy duty makita drilling unit and I now have a channel for all my cables, most of the boxes fit quite nicely into the new cabinet I bought. I will buy a dreambox or tecnhomate to manage my Astra free to air channels, and others I will collect, but I think I will keep all the other individual boxes for the moment as they are taking up less room then I envisaged. In fact the biggest problem I now have is the number of remote controls....
 
Steve Stras said:
Thanks for the support:)
Click to expand...
Only happy to be of help.
Steve Stras said:
In fact the biggest problem I now have is the number of remote controls....
Click to expand...
Tell me about it. I "only" have TV remote, Viasat remote, Foxsat remote, Fransat remote, Tivü remote, receiver remote, DVD recorder remote, Squeezebox remote in the living room. Tried various programmable "universal remotes", but they don't really seem to cater for people having more than one sat receiver... haven't found proper solutions to problem yet. :confused:
I don't even want to contemplate your setup... :)
 
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