Why is Ethernet required?

[CryingRaven]

Hi there

Firstly, I am so new to Satellite TV that I have never even owned one nor do own one to date. I am busy doing my research on the subject so I know what is out there. One thing that was clear from day 2 was that our local "service" provider was NOT the way to go and that virtually nobody locally knows ANYTHING about anything other than the local stuff... So I am stuck trying to figure this out on my own.

Now, I have gotten myself a lot of info thus far and even decided on what box I want (The DB 500HD) but I have hit one snag that I can't seem to figure out. Almost every add I see says "It has Ethernet". Doing a google search lists receivers with Ethernet. Wiki says "providers use ADSL to provide a fast connection through the ethernet port" ... and most importantly, some of the sites that sell card sharing say that all that is required is a a DB and a broadband connection.

My question is: "Why?"

What in the world does the broadband connection have to do with watching tv via Satellite? If it is only for EPG and software updates then fine, then it would be useful but not mandatory... I also read that some providers send a validation string everey couple of seconds and that has to be verified via the internet to continue watching the current stream... How true is that?

Basically, if I buy myself a satellite dish and a DB, will I end up paying $200000 a month in internet charges to watch television via satellite? Surely that can't be right?! o again, just plain and simple, why would places say that "To use our service all you will need is a dish, a compatible receiver and a broadband connection"?

This simple bit of info I cannot seem to find anywhere so even a link to some info would be greatly appreciated. I have noticed you can use the ethernet port to stream tv to your PC via a router which was a nice bonus and absolutely awesome feature to be sure, but I am not interrested in findoug out what the local use of the port could be, I am trying to find out why broadband is mandatory for satelllite tv and how much I can expect to use in bandwidth ...

Again, thanks for anyinfo.

 

[rolfw]

Here you go, everything is here. Dreambox Guides, Stickies and FAQs

The internet connection is used by the Dreambox for updating information, the last sentence in your second paragraph might give you a hint. ;)

 

[CryingRaven]

Yo!

Thanks for the reply... but unfortunately "Ah.. Now I see..." did not go through my head when I read your info... sorry to say...

No link for Klona Guide, WeekEPG 3.1b, Guide to watch AVI DivX Xvid on your Dreambox using VLCF, Tutorial :- Dreambox Edit - Create & Backup Bouquets, Clueless, The real idiots info, Up to 8 lnb's on your dreambox - in pictures, Ts 2 Dvd, How to build a complete image for your dreambox, Generating XML lists for Dreambox scanning, Flashwizard.Control your dreambox power, Mpeg streamclip

"So THAT is why internet is mandatory for viewing TV via satellite!"...???
I think I should go read the Clueless page again because I still don't have a clue

"Updating information"? You mean my phone book or my friends profile pictures on Skype? Perhaps my groceries list! Woohoo! The DB is becoming more of an invaluable tool in my living room with every new thread I read! Seriously, though, I mean, is this for "now and then software updates" or is this for "every three seconds while watching a movie for validation checks"? The above links don't really pertain to my question, that was why I asked it in a new thread...

Believe it or not, I actually DO read the forums before asking questions. A sure sign of being polite, that is!

So to get down to the reason behind my post (and to why those threads are of no use to me...)
I wanted to know if you can watch Satellite TV without an active internet connection, not info on how to use VLC or generating XML lists.

Since our phone lines have been stolen so often in the last year that our country's only nation-wide telecoms provider has decided not to put up phone lines in our area any more, and the new startup telecoms providers offering wireless solutions don't offer coverage anywhere near my area... it means I get internet via 3G. So will it cost me $20 000 in internet charges to have a dreambox in my living room or is the internet connection optional? What info is it updating? How frequently? How much bandwidth can I expect these updated info to amount to or does that vary by how often I watch telly?

Will the Ethernet REQUIREMENT cripple me financially or are the companies that claim internet connections as mandatory simply full of it?

 

[Topper]

Believe me my friend from what you have said so far, I can honestly say a Dreambox is not for you it is a high end specification (technically) enthuisiasts/hobbyists stb and as such should not be purchased by anyone who has not been involved in the satellites scene previously. It requires at least six months of use and learning to get the best out of it and a knowledge of linux may help to reduce that time to 3 months. If you just want to watch the free to air transmission beamed to SA (of which there are not that many) Just buy a cheap HD receiver and a very big dish.

 

[Analoguesat]

Ethernet connections on linux boxes allow remote access to the receiver, updates from the internet to be loaded onto it, and card sharing where keys are shared across a broadband connection.

However as has already been mentioned these boxes are not for the peerson who wants to take the receiver out of the box and have it mastered by the end of the first evening. They are enthusiasts receivers for folk who like dabbling in technical stuff. I have a DB7020 and I reckon it took me getting on for a year to master the more intricate stuff.

 

[CryingRaven]

Well I can honestly say I didn't expect THAT reply...

I thought the DB 500HD would be a nice little entry level thing for me. As it is, I like playing around with gadgets trying to see what I can do with it and pushing it to the limits (according to my abilities). Xbox modding, modifying the contents of commercial games ( yes, ones I purchased retail ), setting up a retro games console so I can record a voice over while recording the game to VHS, using my wife's laptop as a spare HDD for my XBOX via wireless network... I like taking things and seeing what I can do with it. Wether common place or technical or whatever... I just like toying with stuff... as such, when I bought my first FTA STB back when I was living in the UK I got bored in my first hour... Click the power button, choose your channel, press the volume, press the power, go to bed/ work. Whoopie..!

So when I decided to not support our local broadcasting company I started looking at giving my money to the only satellite provider in the country and noticed they are just as full of it.

Check this out:
We have 5 TV stations, most of which is broadcast in languages I don't understand but I have to pay R220 annually to watch this. There is LITERALLY only 1 show we watch on telly and that is my wife's soapie. So, there is the option of NOT having to pay your license, but that entails having an approved retailer remove the receiver from our telly and then you have to pay the broadcaster R300 annually as a call out charge to come and inspect your TV to see if the tuner is still removed. They can show up at any random day of their choice and you must pay them R300 to not have to pay the R220 license...

Regarding the satellite provider:
If you are a business you can choose your channels at R11.50 each but if you are a home user and want the 3 HD channels then you have to take EVERYTHING at R550 p/m. Now how fair is that? I want 3 channels and I am told I need to pay for 50 because I am not a business. I am in South Africa. What do I care what is happening in the US stock market? Why do I want to see models in France walking up and down a runway with half a dress costing £3million? I have not listened to the radio in 15 years, why would I want to have 300 radio stations? I do want something to put my HD telly to use and as it is they have 3 offerings: Looking at animals running around in the bush... How exciting. Sports... Never had an interest in anything other than Chess. And then they have a single HD movie channel. Finally! So now I just have to pay for 50 channels to get it and listen to them justify it via the number of radio channels I get... Well, whoop da doo da dey!

So I decided to get myself something that can receive FTA channels from elsewhere and started looking at this scene and found there is a lot you can do with your boxes and it got me real excited. It's like a computer for TV... Linux to boot! Customisable linux for TV... what more needs to be said... This is for me... if I can afford it!

The reason I chose the DB 500HD is because I want something with an HDMI port that does not have the word "clone" in it's name. The price was a definite bonus as I am not a rich man...

So, to prevent me getting bored with my new toy (which is going to be an expensive one for me to setup initially) in a month or two, and not getting what you say is something too advanced for little ol me to play with and learn over the course of the next year or 3, what box would you recommend is a good entry level box?

I want something that will keep me interested for a long time as I don't intend to buy a new box every couple of months. Something where I can read about feature X on the net, say "Oh, that sounds cool" and then set out to do it without hearing "sorry, your box isn't able to do that". My mottos has always been: "If it can't be done, find a way". I like to tinker. Which is why my first box (setup with the help of a mate of mine who does alarm installations and the the odd dish installation now and then) will be an HD ready system for me and my mom next door, using a rotating dish, subscribed to a card sharing service... If I can afford it.

If not, then my basic requirements, are simple:
1. Something I can afford
2. Something that works and has movie channels... not just God and news channels...
3. Something with HDMI (no point in getting HD movies if I can't watch them in HD and my receiver has only 1 more slot open and that is an HDMI)
4. Not a clone (I know I know... Personal preference. If I'm gonna spend a fortune on doing something I want to FEEL the money is well spent)
5. Something that is customisable/ upgradeable so it can last a long time
6. Something that offers the ability to save movies to hard drive, wether internal or external or via network (doesn't matter which)

That is basically it. So if the 500Hd is not for me, which one would you recommend?

 

[CryingRaven]

Yo.

Again, thanks for the info. Appreciate the honesty there.

I would just like to reiterate again that I am not a complete retaard...erm... reatarde....ret...ret... dumb person (p.s. I'm trying to be funny here). Joking aside, I am aware that I am jumping into deep end here and there is obviously a lot to be learnt. Judging from the posts I have read on the various forums, QUITE a lot so...

However... As it is, we watch 1 show per week and around 3 movies if we happen to be channel flicking and notice a movie has just started. So if we were to buy the setup now and get it working in a day or a week brilliant. If it takes me a year and a half to learn how to learn how to bounce a signal of the third moon of the second closest star that has more than 2 moons, having that signal deflect off the ozone layer and magically hit the spy satellite on the other side of the planet so I can SEND it a signal to turn off encryption on all satellites and have them change orbit to all cover South Africa... That is fine by me. I have time, I can wait. I don't mind learning with time...

I am boicotting our local providers and probably shooting myself in the foot by doing so. But since they have 1 show per week that I care to watch, spending weeks or months trying to figure out how this thing works is not a deterrent for me... since I'm not gonna be missing anything...

the only question that needs answering, though, is wether or not I can afford it. Spending R5000 on a dish setup that will not require a monthly recurring cost vs spending R4500 for the local HD setup that costs R550 p/m for the 3 channels I am interested in (1 HD and 2 SD)... It sounds like a good enough deal for me to take the chance, get the stuff and learn how to get the most out of it...

And then I heard that it will require a 24/7 internet connection in a country where they charge around $35 p/Gb for 3G internet... now that got me worried... $35 p/Gb + 24/7 connection... I wanted to do the maths but then I realised I have no idea how much data is sent via the net... If it's a case of a daily check for updates and 5 updates per year working out an average of 10Mb per month well then, hey, we are in business! If it turns out that they send 1Mb per minute for every single minute of the year... Well, then I would really HAVE to be an idiot to choose this option...

So, yeah, I'm not expecting to me like my Mac where I take it out of it's box, plug it in and voila I am ready to make movie... I am prepared to take the time to learn this. the only question is, can I afford to do this in a country where the internet is going at extortionate rates on a good day...?!

 

[Analoguesat]

Dont get us wrong - the linux boxes are fabulous receiver BUT you have to appreciate they are complex receivers AND be willing to put many many hours of tinkering to get the best out of the advanced functions.

Anyone who has used basic satellite receiver will probably be able to set up a DB on a fixed dish reasonable easily, however they dont magically open pay tv packages - as far as Im aware South Africa uses Nagra 3 so access to a subscription card is required as theres no way to hack it open.

 

[CryingRaven]

"magically open pay tv packages"... now THAT would have been a definite bonus!

As I understand it, there are illegal ways of gaining access to pay tv but, yeah, I wasn't expecting that. Honestly, I was just hoping to gain access to more FTA channels than we currently have and hope that some of them are channels that show movies. I reckon we are close enough to Australia to hope that whatever satellite they make use of there might be in range from over here. Australia speaks English... surely they should have English channels and certainly there should be a couple of movies on some of those channels?

So, if nothing else, I should be able to access our pathetic (but FTA) channels and at least theirs... The more, the bigger the bonus... Thereafter I can look into all the options made available to me by the DB. The simple fact of the matter is that if I get nothing but our own local channels it still cost me virtually the same price as getting the local box, but the local box gives me 100% chance of getting ONLY local channels. At least with the DB I have a CHANCE at receiving more...

And for that chance I am willing to take the chance... and again, the more I get out of it, the better... And at 1 show per week worth watching on all local channels combined... If I pick up any other channels, each one would be a bonus... but not if it will cost me $20000 per month...

 

[Topper]

Perhaps you would be better signing up to an Australian forum then as we have little to no contact/information for our antipodean cousins, simply because we cannot see their satellites, however my understanding is that there is very little available for nothing on their side of the globe too.

 

[LowNoiseBloke]

Ethernet on your DM500 is not just for c/s via broadband connections to the internet (illegal and possibly dangerous !). It can be used to stream video to or from shared network disk drives on your own personal network (NFS, Samba, CIFS) or to send live TV to a PC on the same LAN via VLC. A network connection to your dreambox also makes it easier to update. Please don't run away with the idea that c/s is the be-all and end-all of networking a dreambox.

 

[CryingRaven]

Let me put this another way:
Can I watch FTA channels WITHOUT an active internet connection?

I think that is a better question to ask...

 

[Analoguesat]

Yes you can

HOWEVER, there isnt a huge amount of fta material beaming into southern Africa

 

[Lazarus]

More or less any Digital Satellite Receiver will allow you to find and watch FTA Channels.

The limiting factor is not the Receiver (and coming new to your Thread, the Internet connection is a dead herring and only seems to have become part of the mix owing to it's association with one particular class of receivers that actually aren't even terribly relevant to your needs), but the size of your proposed dish in relation to the footprints of whatever Satellites are "visible" at your location.

 

[CryingRaven]

Okay...! So in the last 2 posts you guys have just confirmed everything that I held to be true before I heard of the internet dependency:
1. The internet is NOT required to receive FTA channels
2. The dish size determines what channels you can pick up
3. as it is the satellite footprint that makes all the difference.

So if I am understanding all of this correctly then it means that my question now needs to be reframed in order to stay valid, but by doing so it is no longer relevant to my needs: "Will using a card sharing service require an active broadband connection?"

But from this question arises another question, am I correct in saying that card sharing services are all illegal? Obviously if you are using stuff you paid for for yourself only, then any way you use it is up to you... but as I understand it, card sharing refers to someone else giving you access to their smart card and the channels they can receive from that. So this card sharing service that I intended to use, if my understanding is correct, would be illegal... am I correct? Not sure if I can post links to (possibly) illegal sites so let my just say this: If you type in cccam in google, one of the top 3 hits is the one I was on about...

Anyways, I am expecting you to answer yes, so that question I am not even awaiting the answer for. The main question seems to have been answered, now, so the next question is: "What satellites are in range from here using a 1.2m dish?" but that would be the topic for another thread... and as per Topper's suggestion, a question best posted on another forum...

I have to say I am very happy with the speed of your replies. I didn't expect to get my question answered the same day..! So thanks for that

Ta

 

[Llew]

As has been mentioned. not a great deal of FTA channels obtainable in SA.

Peruse the various satellites shown here -

_www.lyngsat.com/freetv/South-Africa.html

 

[shumifan50]

Pay servers are the pet hate of satellite hobbyists as they will eventually detroy our hobby. You cannot rely on their service, and as it is illegal, you have no legal recourse if they don't fullfill their side of the contract. As far as I am aware discussion of pay servers on this forum is forbidden in any event.

The ethernet connection is required for several reasons:
1. You need a broadband connection to download and install new software, whether that be new images (Linux + Enigma2) or addons/plugins. Without these software updates the dreambox is pretty much like any other STB (Set Top Box).
2. You can access the dreambox from your PC. This does not require broadband, but does require an ethernet connection. This is used to configure your dreambox and you can also use your PC to watch live TV or recorded programs from your dreambox on your PC using VLC (like media player) and a browser.
3. To access the PC from your dreambox. This allows you to view media files from your PC on your TV e.g. jpg files. You need to read a bit of other possibilities like streaming AVI and MPG as well.
4. The ethernet connection can be used to share hard disks between the dreambox and PC, NAS or other dreamboxes. This is very useful.
5. The broadband can be used for card sharing, not neccesarily with payservers, but between friends, however, this is still illegal.
6. Ethernet can be used on your local LAN to card share if you have multiple dreamboxes - still illegal.

The DM500HD is a great Linux based STB, and I will recommend it, but be aware that you will at times want to chuck it in the rubbish bin in the beginning. As you learn more, you will fall in love with it and and end up being in trouble with your wife.

South Africe have very few satellites with English sound channels broadcast to it. Most of the satellite footprints don't cover RSA. You can check this out at the Lyngsat website (given above). These boxes are most useful in areas like Europe that have many satellites beamed at them. To gain full benefit you will need the largest dish you can lay your hands on and preferably motorise it or at least set up multiple LNBs on a multi-LNB brackets. You might find some watchable channels on the other satellites. But first check out the footprints on Lyngsat and the site also shows the the minimum dish sire required for each satellite in a given area.

 

[totalacedude]

ok

lets say you find some channels where u are, and can pick them up with the size of dish u have, and have decided to become a linux box owner.

you also find you are bored with the crap that is on fta, if u find a friend that also has a linux box and has a card for the channels u want then YES you can watch them using his card and the ethernet port connected to the internet on ur box!

bear in mind this is not cosha and can land u in deep doo doo. even though this is possible it will take u a while to gain the understanding of how its done!

linux box's are amazing in what they can do. and not just the c/s

i would read some of the tutorials 1st to give u some idea of what to expect.....

not plain sailing by any chance but soon turns into a hobby with all the time ull be putting into it!

ian