Why would a floppy A drive say all my disks are write-protected?

[Saturlight]

This isn't the pc I had to replace the hard-drive with, this is the other one!

I'd had no problems with it until I got a floppy disk stuck in the drive, half was in, and half was out. I yanked it a bit, not too hard, the disk came out, but the silver bit on the end, was still inside.

I managed to get it out, with tweesers, but since then the A drive reads information on discs, but it will not eraze disks nor will it save, as it keeps saying write protected disk. But it can't be because all the disks are either ones I've used before or are brand new.

Plus, all these floppy disks work in my other pc. Could it be that I damaged something internally by getting out the silver thing?

Thanks. ;)

 

[2cvbloke]

Sounds like you could have damaged the read/write head or the protection switch (what the little black tab presses to allow writing to the disks), you may aswell get a new one, they're ten a penny these days...

 

[Saturlight]

Thanks, mate, you're always a great help to me. I appreciate your replies. Have a nice weekend, mate. ;)

 

[2cvbloke]

Thanks, mate, you're always a great help to me. I appreciate your replies. Have a nice weekend, mate. ;)

Not a problem, and I'm sure I will, birthday dinner on sunday...

 

[Saturlight]

Your birthday, I trust Happy birthday, if it is. ;)

 

[spiney]

floppies write protect works as follows:

To write protect, the small tab on disk must slide back to show hole. Then, an led shines through the hole onto an opto sensor.

To write enable, the hole must be blocked, either by sliding the tab, or else you can cover up the hole some other was (maybe, a sticky paper label).

Very famously, this is actually the wrong way round! (Thinking about it, if the led goes, you'd want the drive to "failsafe" so you can't write on the disk!).

I don't see how something stuck in the drive could cause this fault, unless it's shiny and in exacly the right position to reflect light onto the sensor!

A 2 cv says, it's cheap and easy enough to replace!

see: www.computerhope.com/help/floppy.htm .

 

[2cvbloke]

Your birthday, I trust Happy birthday, if it is. ;)

Ont the 8th of august it is...

 

[2cvbloke]

floppies write protect works as follows:

To write protect, the small tab on disk must slide back to show hole. Then, an led shines through the hole onto an opto sensor.

To write enable, the hole must be blocked, either by sliding the tab, or else you can cover up the hole some other was (maybe, a sticky paper label).

Very famously, this is actually the wrong way round! (Thinking about it, if the led goes, you'd want the drive to "failsafe" so you can't write on the disk!).

I don't see how something stuck in the drive could cause this fault, unless it's shiny and in exacly the right position to reflect light onto the sensor!

Erm, I don't know how different each manufacturer's drives are, but the floppy drives I've taken apard have a switch that is either depressed by the tab (write enabled) or goes through the hole (write disabled), I've not seen anything as advanced as an optical sensor inside a floppy disk drive, maybe an LS120, but not a bog standard one...

 

[PoloMint]

Yea, all the floppy drives I've seen (not all that many) have had a little bit of plastic and a spring that forms part of a switch, when the hole on the disc is blocked the plastic is pushed down, when open the plastic is up.

This is also the right way round for the switch failing, should the spring wear out or the plastic in some way detach itself then the drive will permanently think the disc in it is write protected (which is better than thinking it's write enabled which could lead to loss of data), but I don't know if this extra bit of security is intentional or just chance...

 

[2cvbloke]

but I don't know if this extra bit of security is intentional or just chance...

I'd hazard a guess at it being intentional to prevent, as you say, data loss if the drive is faulty, better safe than sorry...

 

[Saturlight]

Whatever it is, I've just bought a new one. Couldn't be :-shhrsed to keep guessing what the problem was... ;)

Thanks anyway...nice debate...

Thanks again, and happy birthday on the 8th. I wish I was 21...oh, I can wait!! ;)

 

[spiney]

Sorry! I last pulled a floppy drive apart several years ago, and it was a led, but I suppose a switch is cheaper.

However, it’s still the wrong way round!

“Failsafe” means that, for the default condition, nothing happens! Then, in order to activate a (possibly dangerous) process, you have to do something.

On a floppy, this would only apply if the hole were CLOSED for write protect (nothing happens), rather than open (a mechanical switch has to move).

Compare with VHS video, where if nothing happens then the cassette is write protected, but a switch must move to write-enable.

 

[2cvbloke]

Surely if it was an LED there'd be some circtuitry to tell the drive that the LED is visible to the sensor or not, so with the LED setup if the LED or sensor fails, your drive ends up being stuck in Write Enable mode (not good!!!), so that's probably why most drives use a switch now...

 

[spiney]

Using led, write protect should be either:

hole blocked (intentional).

or

led or opto sensor failed (fault, failsafe condition).

That's why it's the wrong way round!

Note that floppy index sector detect uses an led shining through a hole, you couldn't possibly use a mechanical switch for that.

 

[2cvbloke]

Using led, write protect should be either:

hole blocked (intentional).

or

led or opto sensor failed (fault, failsafe condition).

That's why it's the wrong way round!

Note that floppy index sector detect uses an led shining through a hole, you couldn't possibly use a mechanical switch for that.

Buuut the industry standard on floppy disks is that Hole Closed = Write Enable, That's why all floppy disk labels are the same stating the standards...

 

[spiney]

Yes, agreed, and it's been the industry standard since the original 8 inch floppies. But, it's still the wrong way round!

(if the little write protect tab is absent, then the standard is "failsafe" for that contingency, but as you can quite easily see this, I still don't understand the reasoning behind doing it this way round!).

 

[2cvbloke]

Yes, agreed, and it's been the industry standard since the original 8 inch floppies. But, it's still the wrong way round!

(if the little write protect tab is absent, then the standard is "failsafe" for that contingency, but as you can quite easily see this, I still don't understand the reasoning behind doing it this way round!).

8 inches???

I'm gobsmacked by the 5 1/4" ones I have at home!!!

 

[spiney]

Yes. 8 inches was the original size. I remember them still being around in 1980s, not sure about now!

See history, in Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk

Can't remember them on any microcomputers, the Pets and Apple2s I used had 5 inch floppies.

(just looked on Google, some 5 inches still on sale, but no 8 inches anywhere!).

 

[2cvbloke]

(just looked on Google, some 5 inches still on sale, but no 8 inches anywhere!).

Fisrts result I got on google and I found this site:

_http://www.cadigital.com/flopdriv.htm

8" is first in the list!!!

I still need a 5 1/4" drive though, but not at them prices!!!

Anyway, I just spotted this site, it's hilarious!!!!

_http://rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_floppies.shtml

 

[Lancelot]

256Kb 8" drives were serious bits of kit once, I used to hold them in awe when they first appeared. O-Ha


L.