Astra 2E: Scandinavia & Baltics Reports

[mr420]

My friend living 10-15 km from me getting BBC SD channels with SNR 42% on rest channels he has 72% signals.

 

[archive10]

Will try SMW feed-horn in the coming days (F/D 0.5 compared to F/D 0.6 for standard LNBs), but clearly dish is not big enough for Eastern Denmark.

Not much difference with SMW feedhorn. Sky News still came booming in.
Nothing at all on the BBC stuff, but this is due to H/V mismatch of the old-style Fe-Rotor on the feedhorn and the modern Inverto Universal LNB.
Have to say that I have given up on this dish (for 28.2E, that is), interesting, but not so much use for me now. (The polar mount is a different story, will come back to that in the future).

 

[archive10]

Reception report

Location: Nordsjælland, Denmark
Conditions: Clear skies
Set-up: Newly refurbished Channel Master 120 on Az/El mount with various LNBs. Note: Only measuring and looking at sat-meter (ProMax). No STB connected yet.

LNB 1: Inverto Black Ultra Quad
Result: Positive, took in all transponders I tried.
Comment: Very strong signal, considering it's only a 120cm. Really nice C/N and MER readings. Quite amazing, actually!

LNB 2: Invacom SNH-031 Single
Result: Positive. But much lower signal strength than the Inverto. Slightly lower MER and C/N readings. Still good reception of SD channels. Never got good results of the SNH-031, not sure why.

LNB 3: Sharp BS1R8EL400A Quad
Result: Positive. A bit less signal than the inverto, but comparable quality leves - only 1 dB down on C/N and MER. This is actually a quite impressive little LNB...

So, all in all, the key point here is that 2E and 2F are recievable on a 120 cm dish here. Yes, it's clear-skies, low-humidity, good-weather conditions, but nevertheless, it works well.
However, this is a Channel Master 120 SMC dish (not some cost-efficient metal-pressing), and a good meter. So your end-milage will vary if you try something else.

 

[archive10]

To check claim on local Danish site, this morning I compared the Black Ultra Quad with the Black Ultra Single in the setup.
The quads are often being touted as better than the singles. But there was no real perceived difference in the performance of the two LNBs.
The single i tried is three years old, while the quad is new.
I had 0.1-0.4 dBuV more signal on the Quad, but 0.1 dBuV more C/N ratio on the single.
Well within realistic adjustment and manufacturing tolerances. So for 10773 on 28.2E, I found no difference, really.

 

[PaulR]

I thought it was the Invacom quad that performed better than the Invacom single. The Inverto Black Ultra quad versus single was the unknown quantity and it now seems that there's no difference.

 

[Size matters]

Belated UK SB reception report for SW Fyn, Denmark. Conclusion: Failed!

Astra 2 @ 28E UK SB 2E/F normally only available for a limited time period around lunchtime.

Varies, but usually solid reception between 11am and 14.00pm.

Only occasionally useful reception outside these times.

I have fine tuned my 1.8 Salora PF and lately a Kathrein 2.2m alloy PF dish to the last squeak.

My Fortec Star Passion HD receiver won't lock below 53% Q. Signal strength varies on UKSB between 72 and 76%.

The IRTE alloy feedhorn proved to be superior by 2% on Quality.
So the C120 conversion, which I turned to match the original Kathrein feedhorn, was a waste of time and material.
An Invacom feedhorn is unlikely to offer much extra over the IRTE despite a slightly better, theoretical F/D match.
I replaced the old coax cable with 33m of Webro HD100 with no change.

Now giving up on UK SB Satellite TV. The next step up in dish size would be complete madness!
I doubt a new receiver would help much either having tried a borrowed Kathrein with very similar results.

I haven't decided whether to sell all my dishes yet. If I moved to another location they might still be useful.

The presumption must be that I am sitting close to the null line which runs through Fyn in central Denmark.

Here's a link to an even longer, illustrated description of all my wasted efforts:

A TV Satellite Dish Restoration Project

RIP 2D. Alas, we knew Him well.

 

[archive10]

Belated UK SB reception report for SW Fyn, Denmark. Conclusion: Failed!

Astra 2 @ 28E UK SB 2E/F normally only available for a limited time period around lunchtime.

Varies, but usually solid reception between 11am and 14.00pm.

Only occasionally useful reception outside these times.

I have fine tuned my 1.8 Salora PF and lately a Kathrein 2.2m alloy PF dish to the last squeak.

My Fortec Star Passion HD receiver won't lock below 53% Q. Signal strength varies on UKSB between 72 and 76%.

The IRTE alloy feedhorn proved to be superior by 2% on Quality.
So the C120 conversion, which I turned to match the original Kathrein feedhorn, was a waste of time and material.
An Invacom feedhorn is unlikely to offer much extra over the IRTE despite a slightly better, theoretical F/D match.
I replaced the old coax cable with 33m of Webro HD100 with no change.

Now giving up on UK SB Satellite TV. The next step up in dish size would be complete madness!
I doubt a new receiver would help much either having tried a borrowed Kathrein with very similar results.

I haven't decided whether to sell all my dishes yet. If I moved to another location they might still be useful.

The presumption must be that I am sitting close to the null line which runs through Fyn in central Denmark.

Here's a link to an even longer, illustrated description of all my wasted efforts:

A TV Satellite Dish Restoration Project

RIP 2D. Alas, we knew Him well.

Sorry to hear you've lost the UK PSB channels.

I do believe your location is more or less smack in the middle of the so-called null (it hasn't been shown to be an absolute nill - if you have a big enough dish, you'd probably get a usable signal). However, the lowest signal point seems to be different from 2E to 2F. As you point out, optimising for 2E or 2F might get you more on one of those big dishes (maybe one pointing at each?)

Nevertheless, thanks for a comprehensive description of your effort!

Isn't it just weird that the demise of 2D took UK TV away from Fyn and part of Jylland, and gave it to the east of Sjælland?

 

[Size matters]

Hi

Not weird. Frustrating!
The margin between reliable reception and our present few hours is too much to overcome.
There may still be other strategies which might extend the viewing hours.
But an even larger dish, or dishes, is not one of them where I am concerned.
I seem to have scraped the barrel and found it all but empty.

Hopefully my blog will help others, in a similar reception situation, to make realistic choices.
Optimism has its place or one wouldn't even try. But the cost may end up being too high.
Fortunately I was able to source redundant dishes without breaking the bank.
Others living in Denmark could also take advantage of this redundancy with changing technologies.
The dish of their dreams may be hanging unused on the nearest communal antenna TV mast.
They would just have to be absolutely sure they can house the monster without ruining the landscape!

 

[Captain Jack]

A friend of mine lives in Odense, centre of Fyn and he used to get everything up until 2E/2F on his 1.2m Channel Master dish. Of course, zilch now from UK SB, but he does get all European beam channels on a flat Squish!

This even considering that st1, just a bit further East, is getting everything with decent margin.

 

[timo_w2s]

And it could be worse, in Finland I'm just grateful to get a few of the European beam transponders!! The UK beam is a distant memory from the 2D days for us.

 

[4wd]

Sorry for you guys. Here on the west coast am getting 19 to 20 hours of good 2E UK on my 90 cm, still wondering what size to replace it with, am thinking 125-135 cm may be ok to get it stable in the evening. 2F dismissed and forgotten, way too weak here.

 

[bema]

I say it again. Find a place with stable reception. I guess in your case in western part of jylland or eastern part of själland. Set up a dish, PC server with DVB-S2 PCI-E cards and tvheadend software.
https://tvheadend.org/
With 100 Mbit/s you can stream unicast to a couple of users (3-5 ?). Since you can cascade tvheadend you can run one instance at the site and one at your home. At your home you can mix local (e.g. DVB-T/T2) channels with the channels from the remote site. If you share the cost for the remote site (internet/HW/site cost etc) I don't think it will too expensive. Outside my office (Gothenburg/Sweden) there is a building with an unused 2 m dish. I guess you can find many similar places in Denmark...One other alternative is 27.5W.

 

[archive10]

Reception report

Location: Southern Copenhagen, Denmark
Conditions: Sunny, with some cloud

Set-up: (Brand-new) Gibertini 40cm dish, Black Ultra Quad LNB. Very temporary set-up - dish actually mounted in-doors on pole of bar-stool stood on a box, and dish pointing out of (open) window. Sky SD box (Pace) from 2003.

Result: No 2A, 2B, 2E or 2F. But Eutelsat 28A, all transponders.

Comment: Took 10 minutes to set up. Point was to demonstrate PVR functions of old Sky box to colleagues. And that a dish can be aligned using very simple means (no proper meter). Was expecting the Sky intro video to come through, though. But not even Sky News... Nevertheless, cool little dish. Will probably try something like garbage-bin lid next time, I think.

 

[Captain Jack]

@st1, that's a bit odd... my friend in Odense is getting pretty much everything that's not on UK beams on this "Squish" dish, which is surely worse than a 40cm Gibby?

http://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/...via-baltics-reports.159948/page-9#post-876354

 

[archive10]

@st1, that's a bit odd... my friend in Odense is getting pretty much everything that's not on UK beams on this "Squish" dish, which is surely worse than a 40cm Gibby?

Yes, it did strike me as odd at the time too.
I wonder if it could have been the skew that did it?
Have to admit I siply used the digibox's "signal strength" meter to align with, maybe the box locked on that?
Anway, I'll have a another opportunity to assemble the kit next week, will use meter to make it better then... 8)

 

[4wd]

Just a note from the North. Am regularly reading this fine forum.
Bought a 135x125 some months ago (see picture), but it got stored in the 'potstponed dept.' as 2E UK has behaved very well on my old 90cm during the summer. But (evening) reception now starting to be difficult with the autumn weather arriving.

Will post the results with the new dish, am 99% 'sure' it will be excellent for 2E, hopefully giving some decent rain margin, and will be interesting to see if 2F UK gets within reach as well.
Have a fine day.

 

[archive10]

Yes, it's clear-skies, low-humidity, good-weather conditions, but nevertheless, it works well.
However, this is a Channel Master 120 SMC dish (not some cost-efficient metal-pressing), and a good meter. So your end-milage will vary if you try something else.

Now the (admittedly fantastic) summer has come to and end, it is clear that the CM120 here does not provide ful rain-margin.
Was just zapping a bit, and ended up watching the 10pm BBCnews. After 15 minutes of normal picture, the signal suddneyl pixellated, then disappeared altogether on the FoxSat. A quick check revealed all 2E/2F channels had gone bad.
And sure enough, three minutes later, the rain started pouring down.
Glad I kept the CM180 in the back garden! Time to re-instate, I think...

 

[Brits in Bergen]

Newbie here.

Where in Bergen are you 4wd? I'm also in Bergen and am not having anywhere near as much success as you on 2E with a 90cm. Very poor signal first thing in the morning, gets better later on in the day and then starts falling out around 16:00. Admittedly it's still pointing at 2D but I'm assuming that it wouldn't make much difference (although I'm probably wrong about that! ).

I'm toying with the idea of a Gibertini 125 or 150. Obviously I want it to work 100% but don't want it too big (the missus will throw a fit if I get anything bigger!).

Can anyone recommend anywhere to source such a dish in Bergen (or anywhere in Norway for that matter) ? Any advice on size/setup would be great appreciated!

 

[archive10]

Newbie here.

Where in Bergen are you 4wd? I'm also in Bergen and am not having anywhere near as much success as you on 2E with a 90cm. Very poor signal first thing in the morning, gets better later on in the day and then starts falling out around 16:00. Admittedly it's still pointing at 2D but I'm assuming that it wouldn't make much difference (although I'm probably wrong about that! ).
Any advice on size/setup would be great appreciated!

2d was co-located with 2e/f, so there is only one optimal direction to point at. Get hold of a meter, then optimize azimuth and elevation first, lastly skew of the LNB. Skew is very important for quality at the fringes when the signal ffluctuates on daily basis. Also readings on boxes are often over simplified, esp sky-branded oned. Meters are much preciser, and allow you to specify exactly what frequency you are measuring.

 

[archive10]

Oh, and if you dont have one already, replace your current LNB with an Inverto Black Ultra.