Trying to use a BT Concero 1400 cordless phone in France

[PaulR]

As per the title. I brought this down from the UK to replace a elderly Binatone E800 cordless phone which has finally expired. The E800 is UK sourced originally and I tested the Concero in the UK for a few weeks to ensure that nothing was wrong.

Now we're down here it just won't interface properly and, although powering up of course, there's no dial tone or sign that the phone is controlling the Voip box through which we get our phone service. The crappy E800 had no problems there.

I strongly suspect the problem is the old BT third wire system. Looking at the E800 basestation there are only two pins present in the line in socket and two wires in the cord. The Concero has four pins and temporarily replacing the cord with a fully wired French cord and plug wouldn't make it work.

So, any ideas? Apart from just taking it back to the UK that is. Can I just connect two of wires/pins together? Or does it need a resistor/capacitor coupling?

(I would like to get it working as I also have BT Converse DECT extender (bought years ago) that I'd like to use here. The E800 wouldn't interface but I'm hoping the Concero will. That may well be the subject of another post if I can get the phone to work!)

 

[Topper]

It does appear to be a big problem in France Paul

http://www.survivefrance.com/forum/topics/uk-telephone-compatibility-in-france

possible solution

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=100431

 

[hairybadger]

What type of French socket does the house have? The old (massive) PTT socket or the modern RJ11? If the latter, have you tried connecting the phone using an RJ11 cable (most modern phones have an RJ11 or RJ45 socket). If it's the older socket than the same cable but with an RJ11 / PTT convertor (easily found) should do the trick.

 

[2cvbloke]

One other option that would work.......

 

[sonnetpete]

One other option that would work.......

Or this......(purely for local calls of course)....

 

[Terryl]

Most modern day phone systems only need two wires, the red and green are the standard TX/RX pair, some older systems needed a ground, this would be the black wire, and some of the really old systems use all 4 wires, red/green for RX and black/yellow for TX.

For most RJ-11 jacks the two center pins are the red/green pair for most phones, on two line phones the red/green are line one, and the black/yellow are line two.

You can make up your own adapter is you know the wiring codes for that system.

Or just order one of these hummers.

http://www.internationalconfig.com/icc6.asp?item=33150

 

[PaulR]

Thanks everyone. And in reverse order...

Terry:
Yes modern phones only need two wires. The old British system used a third wire which wasn't the earth but a derivative of the "live". This split so that the speech went one way and the ringer went the other. From following the links that Topper gave it seems that old French system did a similar thing. I already have some of the French T plug to RJ11 adapters (actually the D version pass-through) but they don't have the signal splitter built in.

The modern phone socket in France now is RJ45 and is what you find in new build houses. A bit stupid if you ask me - they should have used the RJ11 standard.

Pete:
Har-de-har-har. Not quite there yet.

2CV:
We already have a faithful corded phone thankfully. The big label on the back says HPF 74130 BONNEVILLE POSTE "PE1" P1. Quite elderly but push buttons and tone make life bearable.

HB and Topper:
The wall socket is French T type but, as we have Neufbox plugged into that it's pretty irrelevant. In fact, not long ago I pulled some new phone cable through as the walls are quite damp and I was concerned about corrosion. I must be on my third T socket by now because of this corrosion.

The microfilter that plugs into that socket connects to the Neufbox using two wires. This two wire cable has RJ11 plugs! The phone output on the Neufbox is RJ11 and the RJ11 to T-socket lead that SFR (my phone and ISP) supplied is also two wire. I tried using a fully wired RJ11 lead but that didn't improve things.

I followed those links and they were pretty interesting although I did think there was some suspect or not-quite-right info about bring UK gear to France. There was an interesting idea about a microfilter having a built in splitter. The only one I had to hand was the original faceplate one but as there's no telephony directly over the twisted pair I've often thought it's now irrelevant. Anyway taking it out of circuit proved to introduce no errors. In fact if anything my Speedtest might be slightly better. A slight diversion there, sorry.

It was all to no avail as using the microfilter in the phone out of the Neufbox didn't make the Concero work.

So, what next? In my box of bits I found a cord with BT to RJ11 sockets and an old BT master socket. I remember back in the days of analogue phones and dial-up using this socket so I could use an ordinary pulse phone I brought over from the UK. Unfortunately when I opened up the socket a large amount of the brass pins in the socket had corroded to excess! Drat and double drat. Triple drat as the BT to RJ11 is only two wires. One thought is to clean up the BT socket as best I can and then hard wire a four wire RJ11 cord in.

Bit of a faff but might be my only way out.

 

[2cvbloke]

If you look in the RJ11 socket on the phone's base, does it have 2 pins or 4 pins (or just two outer pins)? If the latter, then BT could have been quite lazy and set the A & B pair as the two outer pins requiring the BT-RJ11 cable to be 4-wire, but only the two outers used, I vaguely recall this being the case in my BT Studio DECT phone and my solution was to crack open the base and physically move the two outer pins to the middle to conform to standard RJ11 telephone wiring, and it works fine with any ol' 2-wire RJ11 now (well, when I don't misplace the handset!!), can't think of anything else that could be up with it, it's just two wires for any automatic telephone system regardless of country...

 

[sonnetpete]

The modern phone socket in France now is RJ45 and is what you find in new build houses. A bit stupid if you ask me - they should have used the RJ11 standard.

"Ah but Monsieur, zees eez France and we do what we want"

 

[Anonymous_1]

The french phone system use 2 wires: white and grey colour (into the wall socket) , they decide to use only RJ45 instead of RJ11 but if you put a RJ11 into a RJ45 it works well. Also recent phone are sold with a RJ45 cable.
Don't ask me why, we all have stupid administration system I think but France is in the top....

 

[2cvbloke]

The latest BT Openreach master socket faceplates have an RJ45 socket for the DSL outlet, but the modems come with RJ11 cables which fit them fine, odd idea, but there you go...

 

[PaulR]

If you look in the RJ11 socket on the phone's base, does it have 2 pins or 4 pins (or just two outer pins)?

The Concero has four pins. I've already cracked the case open and the board is so tightly packed just there that making up a special cable will be easier. I'll patch something together this afternoon to test this out.

It begs the question of how this was able to work in the UK though. Presumably the cord is a specially wired up to the outers of the RJ11 end. I am unable to remember whether I just used the cord off our previous UK cordless phone or the cord that came with the Concero but I suspect that's important.

 

[PaulR]

... if you put a RJ11 into a RJ45 it works well.

The latest BT Openreach master socket faceplates have an RJ45 socket for the DSL outlet, but the modems come with RJ11 cables which fit them fine...

I'd forgotten that an RJ11 plug will fit quite nicely into an RJ45 socket. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[timo_w2s]

All modern houses in Finland also use RJ45 sockets for phones and you just plug in the RJ11 plug into it. Most phones also come with an RJ11 adaptor to fit the older large 3 prong phone sockets in older houses.

 

[2cvbloke]

It begs the question of how this was able to work in the UK though. Presumably the cord is a specially wired up to the outers of the RJ11 end. I am unable to remember whether I just used the cord off our previous UK cordless phone or the cord that came with the Concero but I suspect that's important.

There's nothing special about it, the BT plug has the A & B wires on pins 2 & 5 (the outer two on a 4-way cable), so on the RJ11 end, the outer two are still the A&B pair...

But yeah, easy enough to make up a new cable, just take the two inner wires from a standard 2-wire cable and move them to the outer pins of the RJ11 plug to be snapped on, and if the phone's wired up in that dickered manner, then it should work...

 

[PaulR]

Possibly.

Like I said I can't remember which cord I used and obviously have no idea anyway how it/they are wired. But I have in front of me a BT to RJ11 cord and that only has two wires to the two centre pins of the RJ11 plug. Which only serves to confuse.

Anyway, I'll be making a special RJ11 cord soon.

 

[2cvbloke]

But I have in front of me a BT to RJ11 cord and that only has two wires to the two centre pins of the RJ11 plug. Which only serves to confuse.

That's a normal cable used with standard telephony devices (phones & modems), it's BT stuff that is abnormal...

 

[PaulR]

I've had a lucky break of sorts. Found a French T plug to RJ11 fully wired with openable T plug. Should be a doddle to change the leads and test the theory.

Ah, later. just been advised dinner is on the way.

 

[PaulR]

And... that works. Tried phoning a few people in the UK but they're all out! The ring tones and recorded messages sound correct though. Now to make a more permanent lead.

Thanks again for the info 2CV.

 

[2cvbloke]

I knew collecting telephones would come in use at some point...