Astra 1N @ 28E - about to go on air / on air!!

[Analoguesat]

So are you implying that when a channel moves to 1N from a frequency that is going to be decommissioned on one of the other birds it will adopt the same frequency? That would mean there couldn't be a period of dual illumination for testing.

Quite possible. For example when 5US / 5* joins Freesat I would expect the 12422H frequency just to be switched from 2A south to 1N spot about 3am one night. Its no big hassle for SES to do that. The same for the ITV sub regions that are currently encrypted on the widebeams.

In the case of C4HD I would think its likely the EB1 frequency would be discontinued on November 1st. Theres no real need for it to continue once the 1N version is up and running and all the epg maps have been changed to the new SES version and channel changes often happen at the end of the month.

 

[Huevos]

So are you implying that when a channel moves to 1N from a frequency that is going to be decommissioned on one of the other birds it will adopt the same frequency? That would mean there couldn't be a period of dual illumination for testing.

Not in the case of C4 HD because that is changing frequency, but that is what happened with BBC HD when it change from DVB-S to DVB-S2 (same satellite though).

 

[Huevos]

[...] I'll be able to pick it up with my 180cm Prime Focus dish.

2 degrees off centre there.

 

[solly]

i will be check next few days signal

 

[Pietclock]

No need to change frequency as long as the current one is within Astra's range. In other words, everything currently now on 2A or 2B, 2D can be switched to 1N without a change. However if channels which are on Eurobird wish to change to 1N for the spot beam, they would have to change their frequency.
it is very likely, that some transponders will be switched to ease the burden for the rather old existing satellites. It will be interesting, if the encrypted ones of BSkyB will still use the wide beams or go for the spot beam.
I think they made a mistake in the NIT - 11.127 really should be vertical and probably is.
to get higher robustness, they've decided to go for QPSK 8/9 on 28 East - in contrast to 8PSK 2/3 on the 19.2 east 26MHz transponders. QPSK 8/9 is about as robust as QPSK 5/6 used for the SD channels.

 

[M60]

Quite possible. For example when 5US / 5* joins Freesat I would expect the 12422H frequency just to be switched from 2A south to 1N spot about 3am one night. Its no big hassle for SES to do that. The same for the ITV sub regions that are currently encrypted on the widebeams.

In the case of C4HD I would think its likely the EB1 frequency would be discontinued on November 1st. Theres no real need for it to continue once the 1N version is up and running and all the epg maps have been changed to the new SES version and channel changes often happen at the end of the month.

It's not quite as easy though as switching satellites, the uplink has to be on a specific antenna looking at 1N, each uplink antenna tracking to the satellite's beacon. There would have to be a shutdown on the existing uplink, power up the new uplink (which will have been soak-tested in to an RF test load via the KPA in to a combining unit), once SES are happy with this the same frequency at 28.2E re-activated on 1N. It would make sense for SES to simply swap transponders from 2A/B to 1N but all depends on what the arrangement is at ground level. I guess they could do this within a couple of hours easily if everything at the Earth Station was in place.

I presume the NIT is maintained by SES and Eutelsat? Is this transmitted only on the Freesat and Sky EPG transponders or alongside every TP?

 

[Analoguesat]

It's not quite as easy though as switching satellites, the uplink has to be on a specific antenna looking at 1N, each uplink antenna tracking to the satellite's beacon. There would have to be a period of shutdown on the uplink, power up the new uplink (which will have been soak-tested in to an RF test load via the combining unit), once SES are happy with this the same frequency activated on 1N. It would make sense for SES to simply swap transponders from 2A/B to 1N but all depends on what the arrangement is at ground level.

There will be some downtime, maybe a couple of hours, but as 99% of the population is fast asleep when such satellite swaps occur its not a problem. Only the insomniacs and night owls amongst the viewers ever see the satellite swapovers.

Im certainly not going to stay awake just to see a carrier go off air

 

[Huevos]

I presume the NIT is maintained by SES and Eutelsat?

The mux uplink comes from the broadcaster (BBC, Sky, etc) so anything else carried on a transponder (NIT table, etc) must come from the broadcaster too, not the satellite owner.

 

[M60]

Im certainly not going to stay awake just to see a carrier go off air

No I agree, there's a few that will though!!

To me the $64000 question is whether SES will retain existing downlink frequencies from 2A/2B over to 1N or move them all to the 'C' band for uniformity amongst the constellation now at 28.2E. My guess is that the 'C' band will be used by 1N for expansion (ie new contracted transponders) with existing ones swapped over on their identical frequencies. Out of 16 TP allocations unused we know ITV will, in time, be taking three and C4 have taken one, Sky may take a few too?

 

[Analoguesat]

I think they will retain existing frequencies for the C5 family, ITV channels etc.

 

[M60]

The mux uplink comes from the broadcaster (BBC, Sky, etc) so anything else carried on a transponder (NIT table, etc) must come from the broadcaster too, not the satellite owner.

So who has master ownership of the NIT as surely the table has to be identical across all transponders?

 

[M60]

I think they will retain existing frequencies for the C5 family, ITV channels etc.

I guess that means they could run higher SR's or lower FEC's on the 1N spot if the spotbeam power is somewhat much higher?

 

[fergyc]

How long before Sky Premier HD +1 then? ;)

 

[dene]

i hope some good FTA stuff comes to 1N AND thinking about none UK ppl and if they cant get the 1N narrow beam.@28.2e
will the likes of me still get a full line up on 19.2e when 1N Goes to 19.2e ?
as the sat @19.2e is old will the channels on there move to 1N and leave us in the uk without a signal on a sky mini dish
ty Dene

 

[Huevos]

surely the table has to be identical across all transponders?

Not at all. There is no reason for Freesat transponders to carry any information about Sky transponders in the NIT table, and doing so wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Llew]

Well having a cursory check of the NIT tables on various TPs, both Sky and Freesat, all frequencies and corresponding info used on the Astras and Eurobird 1 are the same in each case, so I would imagine the NITs are sent by SES.

 

[Huevos]

Well having a cursory check of the NIT tables on various TPs, both Sky and Freesat, all frequencies and corresponding info used on the Astras and Eurobird 1 are the same in each case, so I would imagine the NITs are sent by SES.

Well it looks like I'm talking nonsense then... except sometimes when a mux is on multiple satellites it is sometimes an identical copy at the secondary position, and everything in the NIT table including the slot is completely wrong for the secondary satellite. This is what leads me to the conclusion the broadcaster has the control, even though the the satellite owner may have some contractual influence.

 

[dvdfilm]

How long usually between NIT data deployed and a transponder actually being switched on?

 

[M60]

Well having a cursory check of the NIT tables on various TPs, both Sky and Freesat, all frequencies and corresponding info used on the Astras and Eurobird 1 are the same in each case, so I would imagine the NITs are sent by SES.

It makes sense what Huevos says about differing platforms but I too thought SES (and Eutelsat) had editorial control over the NIT data, it covering their whole transponder range, this then retransmitted at the compression stage by each provider's uplink.

 

[Bob Meade]

I assume with a Satellite getting towards the end of it's life & with cell power falling, shutting down some of it's transponders could extend the useful life of it?