Astra 2F: Central & East Europe Discussion

[Di Trana]

In Potenza (Basilicata, Southern Italy), with my Prodelin dish 11ft (3.34 m) and Invacom quad, I receive all the transponders from Astra2F. The reception is stable 7/24 hrs (with a slight daily variation) provided that the weather is good (no heavy rain). After an accurate test on the skew, the maximum values are: .
11126 V 8.3 dB
11053 H 7.7 dB
11064 H 8.0 dB
10996 H 7.6 dB
11023 H 7.7 dB
With my other dish 1.50 m (+ lnb Invacom quad) ,no reception at all.

Coviello

 

[Luxlizard]

When I am at home,I control if there are developements about the reception of the 2F...The odd thing is that in the morning the 2F channels are weak in the strenght meter,but perfectly watcheable until noon-1 pm .CET....then the signal rapidly weakens and the image at first scrambles ,then disappears..I remember when I was struggling with the 2D a few years ago, that the signal did the same thing ,but about 10,30-11 pm CET..The answer I got in the past was that the satellite did a slight move to follow the sun with the solar panels,and in the fringe areas this was enough to weaken the signal.. but now ,with the 2F ,noon is too early to be satisfied by the same explication...(I solved the 2D problem ,buying a 150 cm dish ,because the 120,even with a better LNB wasn't enough to improve the signal)

 

[davidcmadrid]

Is 2Fs orbit slightly inclined ? Which i think would be the cause of this ?

 

[skomedal]

Yep

Footprint moves E/W about ~50km daily

 

[Analoguesat]

The 2F inclination will be almost zero at the moment. However as a satellite moves around a little due to gravitational perturbations. Its normally held inside a box about 50 miles square.

This of course is completely unnoticed in the main target area but in weak / extreme fringe areas it can be noticeable that the signal weakens or strengthens at certain times of day.

 

[Analoguesat]

Map now updated to here

 

[Pesky Kids]

Maranello, NE Italy.

I have now remounted my Triax TD110 1.1m dish with Black Ultra quad. To make alignment more successful I greased the stupid sliding mechanism for elevation adjustment. I spent a few hours out there in the blistering cold on Friday super fine-tuning alignment, including LNB arm & mount positioning. The best result I can manage is Channel 5 reception only between around 0800-ish to 1700-ish. Even on a 1.1m dish.

During this period 11023h (HD 8PSK 2/3) is very tempremental and breaks up easily, whereas Ch5 (SD 5/6) is pretty stable.

In the old 2D days, a 1.1m dish here would guarantee you 2D 24x7, unless the weather was really foul.

Am trying to figure out what hardware to invest in for 24x7 reception.

What's the concensus on an Andrews 1.8m for me here?

 

[Luxlizard]

Maranello, NE Italy.<br />
<br />
I have now remounted my Triax TD110 1.1m dish with Black Ultra quad. To make alignment more successful I greased the stupid sliding mechanism for elevation adjustment. I spent a few hours out there in the blistering cold on Friday super fine-tuning alignment, including LNB arm &amp; mount positioning. The best result I can manage is Channel 5 reception only between around 0800-ish to 1700-ish. Even on a 1.1m dish.<br />
<br />
During this period 11023h (HD 8PSK 2/3) is very tempremental and breaks up easily, whereas Ch5 (SD 5/6) is pretty stable.<br />
<br />
In the old 2D days, a 1.1m dish here would guarantee you 2D 24x7, unless the weather was really foul.<br />
<br />
Am trying to figure out what hardware to invest in for 24x7 reception.<br />
<br />
What's the concensus on an Andrews 1.8m for me here?

I am impressed...Maranello is only&nbsp; 50 km away by road...With a smaller dish (1,10 m.) you seems to get&nbsp;&nbsp;the same results&nbsp;that I get&nbsp;&nbsp;with my 1,50&nbsp;m. ..Maybe there is hope for me to get a better signal with what&nbsp; still &nbsp;I have got...I don't know if there is a better LNB that could improve the signal...the twin Humax LNB has a 0,2 level of noise...I still have a more expensive Invacom into his box, because performed slightly worse with my dish..Sometimes I&nbsp;think about the &nbsp;the earthquake we had last spring or the subsidence that affects our region....I was wandering &nbsp;if they could have changed the alignement of&nbsp;my dish..,Maybe not...,&nbsp;the problem sprang only a few weeks ago with activation of the Astra 2F satellite..the non-2F signals&nbsp;still show the vu meters at the&nbsp;peack &nbsp;level for strenght and even quality..Unfortunately a bigger dish (180 cm.) could be a problem especially if iI want an off-set model..&nbsp;Let me know if you find a solution..Luciano..
P.S. I have just seen on the web 4 different&nbsp;brands&nbsp; who make &nbsp;180 cm off-set dishes redelin-Andrew-Patriot-Anderson..The price is in&nbsp;US.Dollars..Do you know if anybody in Italy sells these?&nbsp;Just in&nbsp;the case that the emigration of channels, to&nbsp;satellites with a smaller footprint has not yet finished..&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

 

[bim]

Since the move to 2F we have lost all channels from 28E. Looking at the maps 13E looks good for us. Is it possible to receive this by sky box or humax freesat HD box by realining dish or is 13E also affected. After tinkering with the dish we got a reading of ID network 13e but couldn't get any signal strength. Didn't want to try too much incase box is not able to receive this. Any info on this would be helpful.

 

[Lazarus]

Very few English Language Channels and Programmes on 13E.

In any event, only a handful of Channels have moved on to 2F (The Fives mainly).

Most of what what on 1N is still there, on 1N.

Most of the 2A/2B stuff has also been unaffected as yet.

So if you've lost the lot, then your problem is not specifically due to 2F.

 

[Analoguesat]

Since the move to 2F we have lost all channels from 28E. Looking at the maps 13E looks good for us. Is it possible to receive this by sky box or humax freesat HD box by realining dish or is 13E also affected. After tinkering with the dish we got a reading of ID network 13e but couldn't get any signal strength. Didn't want to try too much incase box is not able to receive this. Any info on this would be helpful.

You cant use a UK Sky or Freesat box on 13E and have it working properly - for starters the epgs wont work.

As Tivu says only a few channels have moved to 2F so if you have lost all the 28E stuff then there is a problem at your end - probably the dish moved a little.

 

[bim]

Thanks for your help guys but it is really strange that we lost everything on the 4th almost to the hour. We didn't have much bad weather tolerance but what I did notice aprrox a day before, we started receiving channels which we had not previously received namely from sky on the freesat box, which were only available on the sky box before.

 

[Analoguesat]

Only a handful of channels moved on the 4th - 5 frequencies carrying the entire C5 family, a few of the ITV's and a few of the C4 family. The vast majority of signals are exactly where they were 2 months ago on 1N 2A 2B & Eutel 28A.

Three extra channels launched onto the Freesat epg a few days previously - Sky News, Challenge & Pick TV (aka Sky 3)

If you have lost everything then the fault is most definitely at your end - start with the easy stuff & work methodically

you need to see if the coax cable has become detached behind the receiver (wife dusting or kids fiddling?)
or maybe its come undone at the dish end.
or the cable has chafed through and is now full of rainwater
or a mischievous child has pushed a drawing pin through the cable and shorted the conductors - (wouldnt be the first time!)
or someone has been trimming foliage in the garden & chopped through the cable

etc etc.

 

[bim]

thanks, that clarifies alot. Have noticed the coax outside is brittle. I will have a look tomorrow.
P.S. this is the wife - what is dusting?!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Analoguesat]

apologies bim

There is at least one report on the forum of no signal after ahem someone has had a bout of house cleaning, pulled the receiver forward & the loose coax at the back has fallen out the screw connector.

If the coax is brittle and cracking it needs replacing, if its not already full of water it will soon fill up - I replaced an old length recently & when I cut it water dribbled out of the cable! Use satellite grade coax not tv aerial stuff.

 

[Pesky Kids]

Maranello, NE Italy.<br />
<br />
I have now remounted my Triax TD110 1.1m dish with Black Ultra quad. To make alignment more successful I greased the stupid sliding mechanism for elevation adjustment. I spent a few hours out there in the blistering cold on Friday super fine-tuning alignment, including LNB arm &amp; mount positioning. The best result I can manage is Channel 5 reception only between around 0800-ish to 1700-ish. Even on a 1.1m dish.<br />
<br />
During this period 11023h (HD 8PSK 2/3) is very tempremental and breaks up easily, whereas Ch5 (SD 5/6) is pretty stable.<br />
<br />
In the old 2D days, a 1.1m dish here would guarantee you 2D 24x7, unless the weather was really foul.<br />
<br />
Am trying to figure out what hardware to invest in for 24x7 reception.<br />
<br />
What's the concensus on an Andrews 1.8m for me here?

I am impressed...Maranello is only&nbsp; 50 km away by road...With a smaller dish (1,10 m.) you seems to get&nbsp;&nbsp;the same results&nbsp;that I get&nbsp;&nbsp;with my 1,50&nbsp;m. ..Maybe there is hope for me to get a better signal with what&nbsp; still &nbsp;I have got...I don't know if there is a better LNB that could improve the signal...the twin Humax LNB has a 0,2 level of noise...I still have a more expensive Invacom into his box, because performed slightly worse with my dish..Sometimes I&nbsp;think about the &nbsp;the earthquake we had last spring or the subsidence that affects our region....I was wandering &nbsp;if they could have changed the alignement of&nbsp;my dish..,Maybe not...,&nbsp;the problem sprang only a few weeks ago with activation of the Astra 2F satellite..the non-2F signals&nbsp;still show the vu meters at the&nbsp;peack &nbsp;level for strenght and even quality..Unfortunately a bigger dish (180 cm.) could be a problem especially if iI want an off-set model..&nbsp;Let me know if you find a solution..Luciano..
P.S. I have just seen on the web 4 different&nbsp;brands&nbsp; who make &nbsp;180 cm off-set dishes redelin-Andrew-Patriot-Anderson..The price is in&nbsp;US.Dollars..Do you know if anybody in Italy sells these?&nbsp;Just in&nbsp;the case that the emigration of channels, to&nbsp;satellites with a smaller footprint has not yet finished..&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

I have waited to reply because I wanted to see how the performance was over a range of time/weather conditions.

I have observed that during peak signal time (1145 to 1400 CET approx) there is a fairly healthy rain margin on my 1.1m Triax for SD signals and virtually no margin for the HD signals. In particular the BBC test channels are borderline.

Whereas at 9pm there is nothing whatsoever. I don't have a spectrum analyser, am considering buying a cheapie one off ebay, but I fear that I would need a very big dish for 24/7 reception, if that is even possible.

I have been trying to visualise the movement of the footprint in my mind, but am struggling. I have read that sats trace a figure of 8 in a box 50x50km in their orbit position, but I am not smart enough to translate that to how it works on the ground.

If I could figure out how the footprint is moving then I can look at reception reports into the part of footprint that will be over me at night and take a stab at dish size.

Sadly, for you in Bologna, I think it's bad news because I have a friend in Cremona which is 100km further north and they are getting 24x7 2F on an 80cm dish. I think the drop-off is around Parma and we are right on (or just beyond) the useable 24x7 footprint with reasonable size dish.

I have no idea if there is an agent for Andrews/Patriot/whoever, but if I decide to go that way I shall look into it and post findings here.

 

[Alistair_]

Hi guys, I'm new here. I'm not a technical person so pls do tell me if you need more info about my equipment.
I'm based in the Milan area, northern Italy, on a 1mt dish using two Pace digiboxes (I think they're the 2200 and 2600 models), never had a problem until last night when I noticed channel 5, seven4, 5usa and 5* were gone at around 9pm or so (giving the 'no satellite signal' error), they came back later on in the night. I'm not clear which channels have moved so far as many of you are reporting their changes on ITV and other major channels so I don't understand if I'm in the clear or if I'll need a bigger dish to have all the psb channels back.

 

[PaulR]

Those channels are exactly the ones that moved from 1N to 2F. But that was a month ago and if you hadn't noticed until last night then you are either just on the limit dish size wise and have been lucky so far or something has happened to affect you locally such as a slight obstruction to the dish or damage to the downlead cable.

Having said that, 1m does seem to be on the new small size for north Italy. If you can wait until summer when another new satellite (2E) comes into operation (if it gets launched, that is!) you might find that 1m is not big enough at all.

The advice is to wait if you can. Make sure that your dish/LNB is adjusted to its best and only go larger now if it's absolutely vital as it may be money wasted in 6 months time.

 

[Alistair_]

Those channels are exactly the ones that moved from 1N to 2F. But that was a month ago and if you hadn't noticed until last night then you are either just on the limit dish size wise and have been lucky so far or something has happened to affect you locally such as a slight obstruction to the dish or damage to the downlead cable.

Now I come to think of it, it could well be that I've never browsed over those channels until last night, they're not exactly my favourites.. blimey I'm crying inside..

Having said that, 1m does seem to be on the new small size for north Italy. If you can wait until summer when another new satellite (2E) comes into operation (if it gets launched, that is!)

Why the doubt? Is it (hopeless)hope, are you warding off bad luck, or have you heard/read about some thoughts of retreat? I must admit my ignorance, I hadn't read or heard anything about these new satellites, but, despite what expats around Europe must be thinking about this, I've no reason to believe this isn't going ahead, unfortunately http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/posts/Changes-to-BBC-Satellite-transponders-in-2013

The advice is to wait if you can. Make sure that your dish/LNB is adjusted to its best and only go larger now if it's absolutely vital as it may be money wasted in 6 months time.

As things stand this is very good advice, and that's what I'll do. I imagine we're all in the same boat here, hopin' and prayin', hopin' and prayin'....

 

[gigiPar]

Hi guys, I'm new here. I'm not a technical person so pls do tell me if you need more info about my equipment. I'm based in the Milan area, northern Italy, on a 1mt dish using two Pace digiboxes (I think they're the 2200 and 2600 models), never had a problem until last night when I noticed channel 5, seven4, 5usa and 5* were gone at around 9pm or so (giving the 'no satellite signal' error), they came back later on in the night. I'm not clear which channels have moved so far as many of you are reporting their changes on ITV and other major channels so I don't understand if I'm in the clear or if I'll need a bigger dish to have all the psb channels back.

Hi everybody,
Something similar is happening here, 80 km east of Milan, Until yesterday with a 1 mt dish everything was fine apart from between 7 and 11 pm, when signal quality dropped below the minimum accepted by the receiver for Astra 2f (55% signal quality).
The pattern was everyday as follows , regardless of the weather: medium signal quality (up to 66% ) morning through early afternoon, from then on constant diminishing (63 - 61 -59 % etc.), around 7 pm down below 55% so no more image; back up again to 56-57-59% after 11 pm. For comparison, bbc 1 on astra 1n was and is at 80-81% throughout the day and night.
From yesterday though none of the 2F channels (4/7, ch 4 hd, ch 5, 8901 etc.) is visible anymore, no readings of signal quality from the receiver (this happens when signal quality goes below 51%).