Astra 2F: Iberia & Balearics Discussion

[madridman]

this doesn't make sense. Same quality but different reception.

Yeah, it's strange because picture usually breaks up around 60% quality and in this case it's always on 65%, except Friday morning with cloud cover when there was no signal at all.

 

[madridman]

My receiver was tuned to 11024H. Last night I changed it to 11023H and this morning the picture is stable (whereas before reception was very poor or impossible in the morning). Strength still 91% and quality 65%

 

[joddle]

I have been looking at the prices of 3m dishes and they are truly terrifying. I have seen on some dishes around here an extra extender ring ups the diameter to 2.4m. (a bit off topic I know sorry) Does anyone know what I'm referring to and if they are still availiable?
Otherwise thanks everyone for sharing all this useful information.

The Famaval steel dishes (made in Portugal) are nominally 2,.4M but in truth a little smaller as they have a very wide lip edge which does not contribut to the reception. However that thick rim does allow custom made petals to be added to the outer rim to increase the size of the dish to about 3M.

From what I have heard the petals are reasonably successful but have two issues - 1) if not added properly they can distort the origional dish shape and 2) they make the whole dish quite a but more subject to distortion in high winds. In fact some people actually then reinforce their dishes with wires to ensure high winds cannot pull them out of shape. I would think a proper 3M dish would outperform one with added petals though but not seen any figures to back that up..The Famaval website shows clearly a dish with the petals.

 

[Huevos]

The Famaval steel dishes (made in Portugal) are nominally 2,.4M

All Famaval PF dishes are aluminium. Adding the extender panels lowers the dish efficiency from 65% (2.4m) to 55% (3.1m). That is equivalent to 2.85m at 65%. That's like swapping from a 60cm dish to a 70cm dish. For that increase to be good the 2.4m would already have to be working to some degree on some transponders.

 

[PFD ALGARVE]

I had a look at the site; the dish is similar but has written on it "Algarsat". It's about 20 years old (I inherited it 10 years ago). Here's a couple of photos. It's actually 202 cm rim to rim. It was a polar mount dish but as I've only ever had it pointed at 28E I welded extra supports on it for exactly the reasons you describe (also the only floor mount I could find was slightly undersized). It's worked a dream all these years.

 

[trigger]

From memory the petals on a Famaval add 0.2db each X 8 = 1.6db

 

[pipino]

in costa blanca From my experience dealing with middle class dishes, PASAT Bulgarian dish(aka Turkish dish) is the best performer when trying to add a little salt & Pepper into weak signals..Famaval Dish in reality is a 2.30m diametre on top after few years the dish loses its performance big time the extension panels on it are total non sense

 

[joddle]

in costa blanca From my experience dealing with middle class dishes, PASAT Bulgarian dish(aka Turkish dish) is the best performer when trying to add a little salt & Pepper into weak signals..Famaval Dish in reality is a 2.30m diametre on top after few years the dish loses its performance big time the extension panels on it are total non sense

In the good old 2d days I had a Pasat dish installed (which I still have) to replace my Fortecstar 2.4 which bent up like a piece of paper in a storm one night. - The Pasat has been really good and I would not change it now for anything. I went from having pretty good daytime coverage but night only until 8:30 or 9pm on many channels to 24/7 coverage in all but the very worst rain.

Now on 1N and on 2F (11023) using my Humax I have to use a 20DB atttenuator to stop some channels being swamped and yet I retain 100% quality on everything. On my venerable Pace 2600s I get 90% SS and 90% quality most of the time and don't need an attenuator.

PS re post above - how do we know BBC has gone already? not noticed anyting myself.

 

[PaulR]

PS re post above - how do we know BBC has gone already?

We don't. No-one else has reported a loss, in fact other reports confirm that it's still there.

 

[Mr Hoover]

I had a look at the site; the dish is similar but has written on it "Algarsat". It's about 20 years old (I inherited it 10 years ago). Here's a couple of photos. It's actually 202 cm rim to rim. It was a polar mount dish but as I've only ever had it pointed at 28E I welded extra supports on it for exactly the reasons you describe (also the only floor mount I could find was slightly undersized). It's worked a dream all these years.

These were very good dishes,made by a company in the Algarve around 20 years ago.
There was a 2.8 metre version with extension petals.
No connection with Famaval.

To my knowledge it's no longer made.

 

[PFD ALGARVE]

These were very good dishes,made by a company in the Algarve around 20 years ago.
There was a 2.8 metre version with extension petals.
No connection with Famaval.

To my knowledge it's no longer made.

Thanks Mr.Hoover, it is a damn sturdy dish with no flex at all. I've seen the versions with the petals around, usually unused, I'll try and remember where and offer the owner a beer for 1 !!

 

[Mr Hoover]

Thanks Mr.Hoover, it is a damn sturdy dish with no flex at all. I've seen the versions with the petals around, usually unused, I'll try and remember where and offer the owner a beer for 1 !!

Yes,a very sturdy dish.The problem is even with the 2.8M petals it won't be big enough
to get anything from the 2F spot beam test signal from what I've measured so far on a
spectrum analyser

The 2F test signal varies from 14-17dB below the adjacent 1N transponders not too far away
from you,meaning a dish in the 4.5 to 6 metre range would be needed to get anyhing at all.

Still,things will be clearer (maybe!) after Tuesday.

The 2E spotbeam(if that's where most of the BBC and ITV/Channel 4 end up) could well
be a bit different (stronger/weaker) right at the edges when it's launched next year.

 

[Pedro0102]

Does any one has experience with the Famaval 2.3m dish?
After the Tuesday changeover, and if things turns out to be better for the 2F in Lisbon, I was considering to buy one to replace my 1,5m Gibertini.
One of the positive things I see on the Famaval dish is the possibility of the upgrade that the extension petals can offer.
But I wonder if there are better options for the same dish size. I need to optimise it as I need to ask permission to my condominium. I'm sure I will have some trouble...

Today there are new positive reception reports from the Oporto area with a 1.3m dish. The screenshot I've seen shows a S/N ratio of 9.14 dB for the 11023H transponder.
There are also positive reports from Baixo Mondego area (I suppose around Coimbra) with 1.8m dish.
This is giving me some hope for Lisbon as the geographic distance is around 200km to Coimbra and 275km to Oporto...

 

[molhopicante]

@Pedro:
I live between Estremoz and Elvas and i can't get signal with a 1,80m dish

 

[Pedro0102]

@Pedro:
I live between Estremoz and Elvas and i can't get signal with a 1,80m dish

Have you checked with a spectrum analyser or just the sat receiver?
On my side with my DM800 I cannot see any signal but when I plug an an Humax hdci-2000 it reports 30% signal but not able to lock&decode the signal.
When I check with the spectrum analyser menu of my signal meter I can actually see signal on this transponder around -82dBm. But this is down ~19dB from the adjacent 1N transponders.
I have other sky transponders on the 2A/2B north beams that I'm receiving perfectly (with no picture backup 24/7 unless under extreme weather) with the same signal levels as the 2F transponder (e.g. on 12246V and 12480V). But for these the signal difference with the adjacent transponders is always bellow 15 dB.
Also, looking to the channel spacing between the 11023H transponders and the 2 adjacent ones on the 1N we have ~30 MHz while on my weakest ones of the 2A/2B NB there is ~40Mhz spacing.
No doubt that the 2F signal is very weak over here. But the above might explain why with the same signal level as for other transponders we are not able to get a lock. I think the interference levels are killing it.
My hope is that with the complete swap for the 2F the ajacent interference will go down and then, at least with big dishes, we are able to see something...

 

[dxn]

Does any one has experience with the Famaval 2.3m dish?
After the Tuesday changeover, and if things turns out to be better for the 2F in Lisbon, I was considering to buy one to replace my 1,5m Gibertini.
One of the positive things I see on the Famaval dish is the possibility of the upgrade that the extension petals can offer.
But I wonder if there are better options for the same dish size. I need to optimise it as I need to ask permission to my condominium. I'm sure I will have some trouble...

Today there are new positive reception reports from the Oporto area with a 1.3m dish. The screenshot I've seen shows a S/N ratio of 9.14 dB for the 11023H transponder.
There are also positive reports from Baixo Mondego area (I suppose around Coimbra) with 1.8m dish.
This is giving me some hope for Lisbon as the geographic distance is around 200km to Coimbra and 275km to Oporto...

forget it
you would need a bigger dish than 2.30.
i live near Lisbon and have a 2,10 mtr and don't have any signal.
Have a friend who live in Sesimbra and with 2,40 don't have any signal.
Only on North is possible to get a signal with smaller antenas.

 

[Pedro0102]

forget it
you would need a bigger dish than 2.30.
i live near Lisbon and have a 2,10 mtr and don't have any signal.
Have a friend who live in Sesimbra and with 2,40 don't have any signal.
Only on North is possible to get a signal with smaller antenas.

Have you checked with a spectrum analyser of just the receiver?

 

[dxn]

Have you checked with a spectrum analyser of just the receiver?

I don't have a spectrum analyser. But checked with an old analog receiver. Signal power level come and goes around 10%.

 

[Pedro0102]

I don't have a spectrum analyser. But checked with an old analog receiver. Signal power level come and goes around 10%.

And what do you get on your worst 2A/2B north beam transponders ?

 

[Schroeder]

Just got back from the UK.

Checked the signal on 2F transponder 11023H and found the same as I was getting on 1N. Signal Intensity 87% Signal Quality 76-81%.

location: Albatera (about 35 km south west of Alicante)
Dish: 2.2m Pasat with around 35m of cable to the receiver
LNB: Invacom quad c120
Receiver: Ferguson Ariva 200

Will see what happens with the other transponder due to move on the 4-December.