Astra 2F: Iberia & Balearics Discussion

[Mr Hoover]

Ok, sorry i misread your answer , understand you think there is something workable. I never used a spectrum analyzer but he didnt think there was much going on referring to the signal being mixed in with the noise of the lnb. I am fishing about to make contact with the guy who posted this among other things to confirm its a 1m.

Well if that display is on a 1 Metre dish it's more than we get here on a 2 metre so the signal would
be 7-8 dB up.....It would be interesting to see an up to date picture now the 1N transponders have
transferred and if the vertical transponder is better than the horizontals.

 

[Mr Hoover]

Would you please explain the skew problem with a motor on Astra 28E. Many thanks

If you line up the skew to be correct on a Eutelsat etc with a polar mount it will be
correct on all satellites (to my knowledge) except Astra which is a tiny bit "offset" as Huevos
said.

You can compromise and set the skew difference midway between the two (Astra/Eutelsat) but it's still a compromise of a few degrees.

Basically what an Astra satellite transmits as H and V polarisation is fractionally offset to
other sats.19 and 28 are both the same

 

[Huevos]

Would you please explain the skew problem with a motor on Astra 28E. Many thanks

Explained in the attached PDF.

 

[Huevos]

You can compromise and set the skew difference midway between the two (Astra/Eutelsat) but it's still a compromise of a few degrees.

IMO, best just set on Astra. Eutelsat's channels are 2/3 FEC so a pretty easy catch compared to Astra's 5/6.

 

[craignigel]

Thanks guys for the info/file on the skew. I think that I understand. So with my DISEqC motor previously origianally set up on 1W do I end up with the correct skew for the old Eurobird @28W but slightly off for the Astras at that position and Astras elswhere but OK for all other sats?

 

[Huevos]

Yes, but 28E, not 28W.

 

[skomedal]

Just a question concerning skew and a motorised system?

How many of the negative fringe reception of astra 2F are due to a motorised setup?

 

[Lazarus]

Not very many, I should guess.

The exception, rather than the rule.

 

[Pedro0102]

Or a long piece of dish coax coming down from Figueira Da Foz or Madrid ;)Let's see what the 2E spot beam antenna pattern is like,it may be a little bit kinder in thisdirection....

What are the actual chances for identical UK spot beam antenna patters for 2E and 2F to have different footprints on the ground on fringe areas?
For sure that despite being both at 28.2E the 2F and 2E satellites will actually be a few hundreds of km apart. But, will this be enough for 2E to have a different footprint on the fringe areas?
I suppose the 2A and 2B also have the same North Beam antenna patterns....but the the 2B is stronger here in Lisbon...
I guess we will have to wait and see...

 

[davidcmadrid]

What are the actual chances for identical UK spot beam antenna patters for 2E and 2F to have different footprints on the ground on fringe areas? For sure that despite being both at 28.2E the 2F and 2E satellites will actually be a few hundreds of km apart. But, will this be enough for 2E to have a different footprint on the fringe areas? I suppose the 2A and 2B also have the same North Beam antenna patterns....but the the 2B is stronger here in Lisbon... I guess we will have to wait and see...

We have six months of guessing and speculation ahead

 

[Pedro0102]

yes ... I've posted some screenshots from him here proving this some time ago.

And the same person managed to get 4seven on a well optimised 1m dish in the same area but just above the reception threshold.
So far there are positive reports down to Coimbra with a 1.5m dish.
Further south from Coimbra no one has declared to be able to get the 2F transponders. But the fact is that apart from a couple of reports in the Lisbon area saying that they don't manage to get Astra 2F with 2m and 2.4m dishes I've also not seen any positive nor negative reports from all the area between Coimbra and Lisbon. We are speaking about a straight line distance of 180km but the actual behaviour of the footprint in all this region is pretty much unknown.
Also, we have to keep in mind that the 28.2E in this area of the Iberian peninsula may not be very well optimised as before the reception (even with the 2D) was quite easy with small dishes. Also, I don't think the are that many dishes larger than 1.8m around here.

 

[sector_d]

Hello to all,

I managed to get 4seven transponder on a 1m offset plus Invacom LNB, just for test purposes. Not reliable reception and this was the only transponder locked. Coordinates: 40º 48' 05'' N, 8º 34' 28''W. Should be considered as negative report for a 1m dish.

Further North, just 10km, I could lock all transponders of 2F on a 1,80m Prime Focus, also Invacom LNB. It had not a huge margin - on the very same day rain has disrupted recepetion on 11.023H!

Best regards
SD

 

[Mr Hoover]

What are the actual chances for identical UK spot beam antenna patters for 2E and 2F to have different footprints on the ground on fringe areas? For sure that despite being both at 28.2E the 2F and 2E satellites will actually be a few hundreds of km apart. But, will this be enough for 2E to have a different footprint on the fringe areas? I suppose the 2A and 2B also have the same North Beam antenna patterns....but the the 2B is stronger here in Lisbon... I guess we will have to wait and see...

I've always found the 2B South beam stronger than 2A in the Algarve but the north beam
a little weaker.

 

[solly]

astra 2a same signal weeker of mid east
here only south receiver it and norbeam begger dish need

 

[parix]

Woborny,

Any chance of somehow getting in touch with your Zaragoza contact? I am in Zaragoza too...

Thanks

Jonty

Hi Jonty, I'm in Zaragoza too. I have a 1.20m dish and no coverage of the 2F transponders(0% says the receiver). At the moment I'm looking at optimizations (like new LNB, more directive antenna, etc) but it doesn't look good. I'm waiting for a report close to us of 1.50m or bigger. It's painful to watch positive reports of 80cm just on the french Pyrenees. My current hope is that 1.50 will be enough, It would be good to have access to a spectrum analyser or its report.

 

[davidcmadrid]

A report in Spanish to me : Taragon , South of Barcelona , 100cm . No reception

A report in Spanish again : Pozoblanco , South western Spain ,100cm No reception.

A report in Spanish again : El Palamo , North Alicante , 100cm motorized : Reports on channels below.

A report in Spanish again : Barcelona City , 135cm , nothing.

"
[28.2E] 10846,845 - Vertical - 22999,999 - 2/3 - 8PSK (SNR: 9,9 dB, RFLevel: -50 dBm)
[28.2E] 10964,035 - Horizontal - 21999,493 - 5/6 - QPSK (SNR: 6,5 dB, RFLevel: -50 dBm)
[28.2E] 10993,484 - Horizontal - 21999,854 - 5/6 - QPSK (SNR: 7,1 dB, RFLevel: -49 dBm)
[28.2E] 11023,240 - Horizontal - 22999,994 - 2/3 - 8PSK (SNR: 7,3 dB, RFLevel: -52 dBm)
[28.2E] 11052,505 - Horizontal - 21999,84 - 5/6 - QPSK (SNR: 7,5 dB, RFLevel: -49 dBm)
[28.2E] 11126,277 - Vertical - 21999,905 - 5/6 - QPSK (SNR: 7,4 dB, RFLevel: -50 dBm) "

On a sidenote , this is from a Clarktech 5000 1m report :
10713 H S 91% Q 69%
10728 V S 92% Q 63%
10743 H S 92% Q 69%
10758 V S 92% Q 65%
10772 H S 92% Q 64%
10787 V S 93% Q 71%
10802 H S 92% Q 68%
10817 V S 92% Q 75%
10831 H S 92% Q 71%
10846 V S 93% Q 64%
10861 H S 92% Q 70%
10876 V S 93% Q 75%
10890 H S 92% Q 68%
10905 V S 93% Q 76%
10920 H S 92% Q 69%
10935 V S 93% Q 67%
10963 H S 90% Q 35% no blocked
10993 H S 90% Q 42% no blocked
11023 H S 90% Q 37% no blocked
11052 H S 90% Q 34% no blocked
11126 V S 90% Q 37% no blocked
11221 H S 90% Q 56%
11223 V S 91% Q 60%

Seeing that the reciever recieves stations of 1n with a Quality of 56% can any conclusion for futher investigation be drawn from these figures ?

 

[davidcmadrid]

I had a chat with a guy with a promax explorer in Barcelona and he measured on a fine tuned 100cm dish and believed he needed 5 to 6 DB more to get stable reception. I asked nicely for screenshots of the analyzer output and confirmation of what tp he measured off etc. ( Though im pretty sure that it was 11023H ), taking some manufacturers product line claims at face value that to me means a 1.8 or 2 m Dish ?

 

[Huevos]

promax explorer in Barcelona [...] 100cm dish [...] needed 5 to 6 DB more [...] pretty sure that it was 11023H

Promax Explorer is not a DVB-S2 capable meter so wouldn't be able to lock 11023H anyway. SNR difference between my 110cm dish and my 180cm is about 4dB.

The only real way to know is start with a big dish that you can get lock on and then work down, not work up from a small dish.

 

[trevortronix]

I had a chat with a guy with a promax explorer in Barcelona and he measured on a fine tuned 100cm dish and believed he needed 5 to 6 DB more to get stable reception. I asked nicely for screenshots of the analyzer output and confirmation of what tp he measured off etc. ( Though im pretty sure that it was 11023H ), taking some manufacturers product line claims at face value that to me means a 1.8 or 2 m Dish ?

It would be interesting to see the results of the same test today. 10847V seems to have disappeared here in the Algarve. Didn't think they'd be playing about so close to that annual Christian festival that's only a week away.

 

[davidcmadrid]

Promax Explorer is not a DVB-S2 capable meter so wouldn't be able to lock 11023H anyway. SNR difference between my 110cm dish and my 180cm is about 4dB.

The only real way to know is start with a big dish that you can get lock on and then work down, not work up from a small dish.

Sorry i goofed in terms of not being specific about what he was using , the analyzer was a " PROMAX TV EXPLOREr II ". Right now its the only info we got , the ideal being a successfull report of course , but ive gone to an effort to track him down to get his input Mr Hoover in Algarve is trying to work from the biggest dish down on a 2m but reckons a 6m is needed based on spectrum analysis ( and the 4m blank confirms it )!