Dreambox Tuners Under Test

T

ta3as

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#1
Hi All,
Two of my friend gave to me their DM500 & DM7000 for test and i tested tuner performance of the three models of Dream Multimedia. Here is the results :321:

DM500
The best tuner performance. Winner of the test.

DM500.jpg




DM7000
The second best of the tuner test.

DM7000.jpg




DM7020
Worst tuner performance as i said before ( http://www.satellites.co.uk/php-bin/forum/showthread.php?t=49198 )
Please look at the SNR and BER.

DM7020.jpg



Maybe some tech-support guy from Dream Multimedia can explain this strange case.
 
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#2
Interesting, the 7020 tuner was expected to be best of the bunch (it has two tuners - if I remember).
 
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steffan_st

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#3
Good of you to make these comparsions.Just read on satbook that the 7020 is supposed to have the best tuner.
 
rolfw

rolfw

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#4
Ah, but these tests are only showing what the dreambox meters are showing and this can vary from unit to unit of supposedly identical models, they are not accurately calibrated.

I would guess that a more accurate test would be to pick a good signal and then insert attenuators, until the receivers can no longer lock on the channel.
 
un4gvn

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#5
This doesn't surprise me abit... I found the same results myself 2 days ago when I was having trouble with some transponders on 7w & 13e. I have a 7020 with original image on flash and I brought a friend's humax and another DM 7000. Well this is how i ranked them: top place the humax (88% SNR),second the 7000(83% SNR) and last mine (64% SNR- no lock on transponder(s) in question).
Tried 3 different images and the new DMM images from 9-12 ( i think that's the date) and no change.
Anyone can comment on this problem ?? is it maybe software or hardware or both? Like Steffan said, everywhere you look, it says that the 7020 is supposed to have a better tuner :confused

Now that flashwizard 6 works on the 7020, I will try to install a 7000 image on multiboot and try it (since I heard from another forum that it helped).
Also read that there is a problem with some brands of LNB's and the 7020(I'm not sure about this one)
I will keep you posted.

Cheers from CY
 
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Likvid

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#6
rolfw said:
Ah, but these tests are only showing what the dreambox meters are showing and this can vary from unit to unit of supposedly identical models, they are not accurately calibrated.
Yep that is true, people compare % between receivers and think they are the rule to obey which isn't true at all as 10dB S/N can be 9dB on another one even if they show the same %
 
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Likvid

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#7
un4gvn said:
Anyone can comment on this problem ?? is it maybe software or hardware or both? Like Steffan said, everywhere you look, it says that the 7020 is supposed to have a better tuner :confused

Cheers from CY
It's all about how good they designed the receiver, even two different manufacturers with the same Sharp tuner can show a completely different result, its not down to just the tuner but how they designed the whole chain from the tuner and how the electronics proccesses the signal.

Just look at Koscom, its the best receiver on the market now and can achieve a lock on the signal at only 3dB C/N which is truly fantastic.
 
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ta3as

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#8
Likvid said:
Yep that is true, people compare % between receivers and think they are the rule to obey which isn't true at all as 10dB S/N can be 9dB on another one even if they show the same %
Yes you are right, but at some transponders DM7020 can't lock but DM500 and Dm7000 can lock. I can not receive some transponders with DM7020 but can receive with DM500 and DM7000.
I tested the second DM7020. (Some of my friend gave to me his DM7020) The result is the same.
 
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steffan_st

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#9
Likvid said:
Yep that is true, people compare % between receivers and think they are the rule to obey which isn't true at all as 10dB S/N can be 9dB on another one even if they show the same %
Yes,this is the case with my 2 receivers.The Coship gives a higher reading than the Humax,but when it's raining I can have a black picture on the Coship but on the Humax a full stable picture.

BUT,shouldn't you expect the readings on the same brand and almost the same Dreambox models to be comparable?!?
 
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ta3as

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#10
rolfw said:
Ah, but these tests are only showing what the dreambox meters are showing and this can vary from unit to unit of supposedly identical models, they are not accurately calibrated.

I would guess that a more accurate test would be to pick a good signal and then insert attenuators, until the receivers can no longer lock on the channel.
Yes the right test can be done with the attenuators and signal generators. But these tests that i did gives some information about the tuners performance.
I know that these SNR's are relative and can be changed from one rceiver to another receiver but please look at the picture 3. You can see the BER ratio. I think DM7020 fails the exam.
 
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ta3as

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#11
un4gvn said:
This doesn't surprise me abit... I found the same results myself 2 days ago when I was having trouble with some transponders on 7w & 13e. I have a 7020 with original image on flash and I brought a friend's humax and another DM 7000. Well this is how i ranked them: top place the humax (88% SNR),second the 7000(83% SNR) and last mine (64% SNR- no lock on transponder(s) in question).
Tried 3 different images and the new DMM images from 9-12 ( i think that's the date) and no change.
Anyone can comment on this problem ?? is it maybe software or hardware or both? Like Steffan said, everywhere you look, it says that the 7020 is supposed to have a better tuner :confused

Now that flashwizard 6 works on the 7020, I will try to install a 7000 image on multiboot and try it (since I heard from another forum that it helped).
Also read that there is a problem with some brands of LNB's and the 7020(I'm not sure about this one)
I will keep you posted.

Cheers from CY
I tried to install DM7000 images to my DM7020 but nothing changed. It's a waste of time.

Cheers...
 
rolfw

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#12
I'm not saying that it doesn't prove anything, just that the displays on the receivers are not calibrated well and that if you tried ten 7020s with similar image, you would probably get a different result from all of them, plus you would also get wider differences when running different images.
 
rolfw

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#13
PS. Having said that, if the 7000 does perform better than the 7020, then how bad is that tuner. ;)
 
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ta3as

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#14
rolfw said:
I'm not saying that it doesn't prove anything, just that the displays on the receivers are not calibrated well and that if you tried ten 7020s with similar image, you would probably get a different result from all of them, plus you would also get wider differences when running different images.
Hi @rolfw,
But the gap is very big between the DM500 and DM7020. DM7020 has locking problems at some transponder frequencies. Two of my friend (who have DM7020) have BER and unlock problem at different frequencies. These problematic frequencies are not the same. For example I have a big problem at hotbird at 12092 but another DM7020 owner has same unlocking problem but different frequency.

TNX
 
rolfw

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#15
Seems they've spent more time on the other capabilities of the box, when perhaps they should have paid more attention to the tuner's performance.

I have the 7000 and have found it adequate, but not spectacular, the little Novus receiver I have tried performs distinctly better on weak transponders, but of course doesn't have the whistles and bells.

At the end of the day, if you are in to feed hunting or fringe reception, then the Dreambox in any incarnation, is not for you.
 
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Likvid

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#16
What hardware version is it on the DM500S you have?

There is a new DM500S that was released a month ago or so that is much better according to some forums....
 
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Likvid

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#17
rolfw said:
Seems they've spent more time on the other capabilities of the box, when perhaps they should have paid more attention to the tuner's performance.
Yes that has been my thought as well, that is the major reason i didn't want to jump into buying the DM7020S once again as i sold my old one to my brother.

I wonder how good the tuner in the Triple Dragon is, that i am very interested in as the whole receiver seems to be in another quality league compared to Dreambox.
 
un4gvn

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#18
Well I'm not a sat expert like most of you guys but I will tell you this, like I mentioned before, I have problem with my DB 7020S locking on certain transponders with an SNR between 58-64 and a high BER (1500-2000).
With the humax and the 7000 no problem whatsover.
After posting my last reply, I went to my sat store and asked if I could borrow another lnb just for testing, he gave me a new invacom c120 flange, no change.
then I installed the same image that was on the 7000 (rel108-1) on the usb stick and I managed to get a lock on 2 of those transponders but not all of them. Which leads me to believe that it could be a software issue. but then again I'm not an expert but just a normal Joe trying to find a solution for his problem.

@ likvid:
Saw you lurking in the reelbox forum m8 :) , did you get one or are you in the process lol ???

PS: Don't get me wrong, I still love my 7020 :-bighappy
 
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Likvid

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#19
un4gvn said:
@ likvid:
Saw you lurking in the reelbox forum m8 :) , did you get one or are you in the process lol ???
I am a nutcase as i jump between products all the time and is never satisfied really.

I guess i am searching for something that doesn't really exist.

It's a whole new market these days which i am not confident with, the focus is more on multimedia receivers with PVR and all that stuff and other fancy stuff.

Reelbox is crazy price and i am afraid about the support, if there isn't going to be a big user community i think it will die slowly.

Dreambox is big, lots of people uses Dreamboxes, but the hardware seems to suck.

So i am looking at Triple Dragon, Triple Dragon is like Reelbox there is no big user community out here and i am afraid that will also die slowly.

Paying 400 euros is pretty much money to chance on a receiver with little support.

I am also looking at the Arion AF-9300PVR which is the OEM of Echostar 5020, seems nice.

But the biggest thing that concerns me that they make all receivers these days as "dumb receivers"

In the old days it was fun playing around.

Sorry for out of post from subject.
 
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#20
However we should see how the upcoming 7025S with dual tuners will perform.
 
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