Karen Murphy - ECJ Judgement Due/Delivered

Analoguesat

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Tivù said:
Almost certainly increased costs in the long term.

In two or three years time, many will be speaking of Murphy in unkindly terms.

I suspect that due to the renegotiation of agreements that will happen, the potential of apparent Competition will be severely constrained as there will be no room for Broadcasters to manoeuvre prices in the market place downwards.

I give it two years before the Sky brand starts appearing on other currently independent platforms.

Anyone for

Sky Balkans
Sky Bulgaria
Sky Poland

etc etc
 

bigtee

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Tivù said:
Almost certainly increased costs in the long term.

In two or three years time, many will be speaking of Murphy in unkindly terms.

I suspect that due to the renegotiation of agreements that will happen, the potential of apparent Competition will be severely constrained as there will be no room for Broadcasters to manoeuvre prices in the market place downwards.


Edit: Yeah, what he said!


^^^ I beg to differ. Her name will be for ever written in gold in more ways than one --- including in the annals of the development of European law.

Whether prices go up in two years time or not ---- which itself is by no means certain. Assume the licensing fee to overseas providers rise but there is no need to buy through an unreasonably expensive middleman . . . . . .
 

jcm193

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For decent coverage it was never cheap look at viasat @1400 for two years through a reseller,if you where able to buy directly through a foreign broadcaster i can not see it being anymore expensive

Analoguesat said:
Your guess is as good as ours atm, but its a dead cert the days of cheap football for UK viewers via European cards are coming to an end - European prices are bound to rise.


However its also a good possibility that Sky can start to sell their services to anyone who wants them anywhere in Europe
 

Analoguesat

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jcm193 said:
For decent coverage it was never cheap look at viasat @1400 for two years through a reseller,if you where able to buy directly through a foreign broadcaster i can not see it being anymore expensive

What through Sky Nordic? :D
 

jcm193

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I was thinking more of the viasat direct if thats even possible,but you never know sky might even start selling in that region if they could
 

bigtee

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I think the commentary in the following link is pretty decent and it is a good idea to bookmark it here.

_www.headoflegal.com/2011/10/04/eu-law-2-fa-premier-league-0/

Note especially what it says (which I will confirm when I read the judgment) on the seemingly much misunderstood "copyright" law point.

In early reaction I’ve seen and heard this morning, journalists are keen to stress the complexity of the judgment and that the Premier League may take some comfort from what the ECJ said about its having copyright in certain elements of broadcasts (para. 149):

FAPL can assert copyright in various works contained in the broadcasts, that is to say, in particular, the opening video sequence, the Premier League anthem, pre-recorded films showing highlights of recent Premier League matches, or various graphics.

I don’t think that comfort is real, though. The ECJ goes on (para. 182) to rule that technical reproduction of these graphics etc. within decoders and receivers falls within an exception

laid down in Article 5(1) of the Copyright Directive and may therefore be carried out without the authorisation of the copyright holders concerned.

As far as the actual showing of the graphics etc. to the pub audience is concerned, it’s true that the ECJ rules (para. 207) that

‘communication to the public’ within the meaning of Article 3(1) of the Copyright Directive must be interpreted as covering transmission of the broadcast works, via a television screen and speakers, to the customers present in a public house.

That appears at first blush to concede to the Premier League the right to sue pubs for breach of copyright for showing their customers copyright elements (the anthem etc.) as part of match broadcasts.

I doubt even that can work for them, though. Article 5.3(i) of the Copyright Directive provides that

Member States may provide for exceptions or limitations to the rights provided for in Articles 2 and 3 in the following cases: …

(i) incidental inclusion of a work or other subject-matter in other material

and section 31(2) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 is an example of just such an exception, making it lawful for Ms. Murphy to communicate to the public those copyright works lawfully included by NOVA in its broadcast. The one tiny crumb remaining might be the right to sue her for breach of copyright for allowing her customers hear the Premier League “anthem”; that’s because of the special position regarding musical works under section 31(3).

But even if the Premier League can prove Ms. Murphy doesn’t show matches with the volume turned down, I doubt they can seriously frustrate the entire purpose of EU internal market law based on attempts to enforce copyright in the anthem alone – however often they decide to play it. Its lawyers may well write letters trying to convince firms and consumers that they’re still taking legal risks by using foreign decoders, and many people may be convinced for a time at least. That time will be very commercially valuable for the Premier League. But I expect it to last only as long as it takes the ECJ to rule on the matter again.
 

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I saw a bit of this on Sky :)

They were suggesting that although the viewing of the Game wasn`t a problem, viewing the PL Logo and Score was a problem.

Piss poor argument, well done Karen, if I am ever down that way I will make a point of calling in, for a Beer and a Game
 

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In the long run is this likely to mean that you could legally subscribe to Sky if you live abroad, or Canal+ if you live in the UK? Or is it only down to the PL matches?
 

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durhamwasp said:
In the long run is this likely to mean that you could legally subscribe to Sky if you live abroad, or Canal+ if you live in the UK? Or is it only down to the PL matches?

Yup you should be able to subscribe direct to any service you want to.
 

wod

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Analoguesat said:
Yup you should be able to subscribe direct to any service you want to.

I hope so as I would love to have Viasat but I can see it not happening though.

but in an ideal world you should be allowed to subscribe to the French channels or whatever you want, there is choice in everything else.
 

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The better outcome from all of this is that we are possibly closer to getting the FAPL to rethink their whole package arrangement. Move all PL matches to Saturday 5:15 or whenever and show them all live with 12:30 Saturday, 1PM/4PM Sunday and 8PM Monday packages as now if required. Sell season tickets for specific teams or a Gold package that gets you everything. Saturday PM/Match of The Day highlights can remain for those not interested in a sub. They'd probably need Sky's help in this or could expand the Premier League TV idea.

For me this is the only solution that maximises revenue for the FAPL and gives the viewer what they want with the minor inconvenience of a different kick off time for the bulk of matches. With football being all about money these days it's odd that the lack of 3PM matches still exists when other European countries ditched it years ago.
 

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hello,
some one here said that after this sky uk must now send their equipment and cards to any eeu country.
if they do not they could be hit with a fine.
so sky uk should be easy to buy and sent to italy.
also sky italiaa could be sent to the uk as well.
i can see this happening soon.
anyone have any input??
ralph
 

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That's a very simplistic assumption - rest assured that whatever does happen, it will be to the benefit of Sky, not the Consumer!

The Murphy woman has helped stir up a can of worms in the wrong way.
 

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It may be legal to BUT thats doesnt mean to say they will want to ;) :D

There is NO WAY Sky will make it easy for uk viewers to get Italia - if for no other reason of the 3pm games on the footy - these are still blocked out here..

And remember Sky are very friendly with Teflon Dave our Prime Minister.
 

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She didn't win she lost. Pubs cannot show the games still because of copyright, All EPL european feeds have the logo etc.. IF any pub show the game they will get proescuted. The judge as made it clear that the nova card was for a single client use and not commercial. There's no way around that.
Remember this is going back to the high court these are recommendations given regarding european law. The EPL still can get her for copyright, and if they can they will. The only reason all the papers were saying she won was because it makes a good headline, pub lady wins against sky etc. She will never show 3pm again because she will get done. This as actually done more damage as the EPL will make it very difficult for european cards to be sold here. Also you can most likely say bye to Tring now especially after this ruling.
Read this article in the independent and it shows who actually won...

=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/david-prosser-its-a-home-victory-for-sky-after-all-2365563.html
 

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The above is misinformed and wrong! Pubs cannot get "prosecuted", at worst they can be sued for breach of copyright which only leads to damages/injunction and not a criminal conviction or criminal record. It is also doubtful that a copyright infringement action will be successful because of some exceptions in the same European law which has long been implemented in UK legislation.
 

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bigtee said:
The above is misinformed and wrong! Pubs cannot get "prosecuted", at worst they can be sued for breach of copyright which only leads to damages/injunction and not a criminal conviction or criminal record. It is also doubtful that a copyright infringement action will be successful because of some exceptions in the same European law which has long been implemented in UK legislation.

If they can't prosecute then they will sue or what ever you can doing regarding copyright. But there is no way the the EPL are going to allow pubs to use European domestic cards and on top of that show 3pm. The pubs have gained nothing from this hearing. It just shows how bad the press are in this country, create false headlines to sell papers.
 

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hello tevu and analog,
so would you say that sky uk will not be sending sky uk boxes and cards to italy or germany?
so this does not open up the tv borders at all.
i bet that if nova sat in grece knew about mrs, murphy they would be looking for 5,000 pounds for sure.
thanks for the info
Ralph
 

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i dont know the in's and out's here, but i do know that the club i am a member of connects to sattelite tv channels over the internet, a man comes in with a laptop and updates monthly, our annual subscriptions total 150 quid and we watch all premier league, espn and scottish premier (not through choice) apparently legally, i wonder how much that would cost us through S** and V****n to watch , we have had this for nearly 2 seasons now. good luck to the landlady in question, but we been doin this longer, just dont want it in the papers lol
 
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