New installation with multiple satellites and multiple receivers

torusJKL

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Hi

I want to install 2 dishes for ABS and Hotbird 13E.
The dishes will be on the roof of a 8 stories building so the sight will be good.

The problem is that I need to minimize the cables coming into the house.
On the reciever I have duel tuner and I would like to be able to view and record 2 feeds at the same time.
(Either DM8000 or VU+ Ultimo)

I saw the directTV SWM (single wire multi switch) which would be perfect but if I understand it correct those work only with directTV.
Is there some product which does more or less the same but works with ABS and Hotbird?


Another option would be to use 2 dual NLB and a stacker and destacker in the apartment so that I had 1 cable for each satellite getting into the receiver without diseqc. But that would limit me to 1 satellite peer tuner so I could not watch something on ABS and record something else on the same satellite.

Thansk!
 

rolfw

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I would say that the minimum would be two cables if you require two feeds from each dish to enable both satellites on both tuners.

Edit, with of course two twin LNBs and two 2 way DiseqC switches at the dishes.
 

A nonymous

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Just buy a multiswitch like the Vision V9-916. It has inbuilt DISEqC switching and has the added extra that you can also supply DVB-T signals straight down the same cable. You just then put the cables into a twin output plate like the Vision V33-23Plus.

You will also need two Quattro lnbs to feed the multiswitch from each dish. In theory if the building is not that big you could always use WF65 Shotgun cable instead of a twin WF100 feed, the shotgun cable is still twin feed but doesn't take up much more space than a single WF100 cable would.

Nano
 

torusJKL

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Thanks for your replies.

With the Vision V9-916 I would get 16 outputs where every output can be used to receive any of the inputs.
How do I get 2 independant feeds per receiver? Would I have to use 2 WF65 or WF100 shotgun cables?
Is this cable then split at the end or would I have to connect serial to the 2 tuners?

Thanks!
 

rolfw

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You would need four feeds from each quattro LNB to the multiswitch, this would have to be based on the roof (unless you want to run 8 cables down from the roof) , then a twin cable feed down to the apartment. Twin LNBs and two DiseqC switches is a cheaper solution, you can also buy a Stacker/Destacker with DiSEqC capabilities for a single cable solution. www.gionlineshop.co.uk/product_detail.php?code=F101692&product=Stacker%20DeStacker%20DiSEqC&sm=8
 

torusJKL

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If I'd use 2 twin LNBs and 2 DiseqC then I would not be able to record and watch two different channels on the same satellite.
The problem with the stacker is the same I would only be able to watch 1 satellite and record the other, right?

On the PDF you added the link above I can see on the second page a installation where there is a multiswitch and from the multiswitch to the Stacker.
Would that allow the receiver to ask for both lines (coming out of the destacker) to be either satellite feed?
If so this sounds like the solution I was looking for.

2x 1m dish -> 2x quattro LNB -> 9x4 multiswitch -> 2x stacker -> 2x cable to my home -> 2x destacker -> 2x receiver#

Do you maybe know a multiswitch that does not have to be powered localy (adding power to the regular cable that is already used for the signal) or does not need any additional power? There is no easaly accessable power outlet on the roof.
 

rolfw

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No, as far as I know, the Stacker passes DiSEqC commands to both LNBs, so two switches would allow you to have access to both satellites on both feeds.
 

torusJKL

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There must be something I'm missing with the twin LNB and DiSEqC solution.
I would feed satellite A and satellite B into each of the 2 DiSEqC. I would then get 2 cables and I connect 1 to each of my 2 receivers.
How will it now be possible for both receivers to receive/record A/A or A/B or B/B using this 1 cable and the 1 DiSEqC?

Wouldn't that limit myself to only get A/A or B/B?
And what about 1 channel being horizontal and the other vertical like A-h/A-v. Is the twin LNB capable to send me both over the same feed?
 

rolfw

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The stacker destacker stacks two entirely separate feeds, so if each feed has two satellites via a DiSEqC switch, that's what you'll get at the bottom, satellite A and B available on each tuner.

But if you are concerned about it, just run a twin cable.
 

torusJKL

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rolfw, I much appriciate the time you are taking to help me with my questions!

The stacker destacker is a good thing and I'm most defenitally going to use it.

What I don't get is how the DiSEqC can route 2 different sattelites simultaniously to the stacker (using 1 single coax cable) so that at the other end of the destacker the receiver can receive both individual satellites feeds again through 1 singel coax cable.
The second singel coax cable coming out of the destacker will be connected to the second receiver and there we would have the same problem.

Using a twin cable instead of the stacker destacker poses the exatly same problem.
 

rolfw

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Well no receiver can do that, on each tuner you'll have a choice of satellite A or B at any given time (controlled by DiSEqC commands and switching), that's how they work, if you want more, then more cables, more tuners are required.
 

torusJKL

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I'll have 2 tuners in each receiver.
And each tuner should be able to use each of the satellites independantly.
Thus I thought about using the switch in combination with the stacker and destacker like this:

2x 1m dish -> 2x quattro LNB -> 9x4 multiswitch -> 2x stacker -> 2x cable to my home -> 2x destacker (4 cables where each cable can be switched to any satellite) -> 2x receiver (each having 2 tuners)

If I would want to do that without the multiswitch I guess I would need something like this:
2x 1m dish -> 2x Quad LNB -> 4x 2x1 DiSEqC -> 2x stacker -> 2x cable to my home -> 2x destacker (4 cables where each cable can be switched to any satellite) -> 2x receiver (each having 2 tuners)

Would both of the above combinations work from a technical point of view?
 

rolfw

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Didn't see the bit about two receivers, so just double up what I've suggested, quad LNBs, four times 2-way DiSEqC switches, 2 x Stacker Destackers and two cables run down to the apartment , with two receivers, a multiswitch and quattro LNBs becomes viable, rather than the four DiSEqC switches.
 

torusJKL

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Sorry, the 2 receivers where not in the original post. I always had them in mind but did not write about that until a few posts later.

So I'll go for the multiswitch. It looks cleaner.
And then I'll use 2 stackers to get the 4 feeds into the house.

Thansk for your help!
 

Huevos

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Here's another option. Unicable LNB on each dish. Two cables down, or use shotgun (but shotgun losses are greater). Once you get in the apartment split each downcable into four using spliters. That allows you up to 4 tuners per LNB. E2 receivers allow DiSEqC infront of Unicable so you could mix one feed from each tuner via DiSEqC 1.0 switches and be able to feed up to 4 tuners from both dishes.

Stacker/destacker uses very high frequency for the second feed (between 2-4 GHz) so neither shotgun cable nor long runs are a good idea with this device.
 

torusJKL

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Unicable LNB sounds like an interesting solution.
Do those also work with multiswitches, for example if I would want to add another receiver later, or only the spliters?

I found this one:
shop.digital-devices.de/Unikabel-LNB-4/2

I asume with E2 you mean Enigma2.
I do not understand exactly where I would put the DiSEqC so that you would use 1 cable and still have 2 satellites available.
 

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torusJKL said:
Unicable LNB sounds like an interesting solution.
Do those also work with multiswitches, for example if I would want to add another receiver later, or only the spliters?

I found this one:
shop.digital-devices.de/Unikabel-LNB-4/2

I asume with E2 you mean Enigma2.
I do not understand exactly where I would put the DiSEqC so that you would use 1 cable and still have 2 satellites available.
Enigma2 as a brand belongs to Dreambox, and since the legal case where another manufacturer used it in the PR material it is generally referred to as E2.

LNB on the website has one 4-channel Unicable port and two legacy (standard universal) ports.

Multi-switch simplifies this further. Quattro LNB on each dish gives 8 polarities. A Multi-switch like the one in the link below takes those 8 polarities and ports them over a single cable from the roof and this single cable can be split to as many as 8 tuners.

hxxp://www.emp-centauri.cz/products.php?page=products&id_kateg=6&id_pkateg=37
 

torusJKL

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How do Unicable systems work with DVB-T receivers.
Assuming I have an antenna connected to the Unicable multiswitch.
Can I just use an adapter F to TV-Antenna adapter and connect the cable to the tuner or do I need a special Unicable DVB-T tuner?

I think I'll go for one of the blow multiswitches:
www.techno-com.de/shopjtl/Multischalter-9-8-JULTEC-JRM0908A-receiver-powered-ohne-Netzanschluss
www.hm-sat-shop.de/einkabelsystem/inverto-idlp-uss2oo-cuo1o-8pp-unicable.html

The big advantage of the first being that it does not need external power and takes the 5V from the receivers.
 

torusJKL

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Do you know if it is possible to connect a unicable diectly to a DVB-T receiver or if I need a special adapter for that?
 

Huevos

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Mate, you can't use a terrestrial receiver for satellite. It's not just the plugs. Satellite is in a completely different band and uses completely different modulation. Also a DVB-T receiver is not going to be able to send DiSEqC or Unicable commands.

It's a bit like asking if it's ok to put diesel in a petrol car just because you've done a mod to the fuel cap.
 
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