No 2D Backup?

BarMoo

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#1
We all know the story that Astra 2C was supposed to be located at 28.2°E (the clue is in the 2), but after that launch disaster (was it 1K?) Astra 2C ended up entertaining the Germans at 19°E.O-Ha

That said, the next bit is as interesting as watch fungi grow on a cow-pat, but might interest you slightly. Anyway, I happened to come across some satellite information for 2D today.

2D has 16 "low band" transponders working between 10.70 GHz and 10.95 GHz.

Astra pride themselves on the fact that, at the flick of a switch and in the event of transponder failure, they can shift "channels" to a co-located satellite. As Astra puts it "Safeguarding Revenue": their own presumably!

However, in my head, there is a problem with this. There are only two birds in the "2" fleet that have "low band" capability. One is 2D and the other is 2C.

Since 2C is nowhere near 2D, this minor inconvenience leads me to an unsubstantiated senario. Yawn.

What if one of the BBC's transponders, say, Tp41 goes belly-up? (actually they are Astra's, but let's make it simple). There are ten services on transponder 41. What to do? The bird is FULL, they are FTV and have, alledgedly, nothing to do with SKY.

Of the 16 transponders on 2D: 10 are leased by SKY (as one is to assume by looking at Lyngsat), 5 by other operators, 1 (Tps 41) by Channel Four me thinks. So, how does that all work then with no co-located bird with low-band capability?

How would Astra facilitate "Safeguarding Revenue" in the event of a major belly-up? Could Astra demand that SKY make space for the FTV broadcaster on one of their transponders? I don't imagine for a second that any of the commercial PSB's would make space for them: given that they have squeezed just about everything into their own space anyway (sic).

Whatever, if the answer is no, then surely, the BBC (and without the protection of encryption) would have to go onto a wide-beam satellite. Nice:)

I know I have simplified everything, but, the fact remains that there is no back-up for 2D (as Astra define it) and I can't find any info on any planned launches that might provide that back-up?

The answer, I suppose, is whether you take the info on Lyngsat literally. Else, what 'actual' control does an operator or broadcaster have over their leased transponder?

The classic example is ITV. We know that ITV leased two tps from Astra last year: yet, all ITV tps's are listed as "SKY" on Lyngsat (paying for encryption and region control).

I'll finish now before I stand in the cow-pat. Views anyone?

Have Fun,


Mark.
 

rolfw

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#2
I'm sure that all of the providers have reciprocal arrangements Mark, but it is an interesting scenario and probably also covered in SES Astra's disaster recovery folder. :)


PS. How long have you been suffering from stress? :-anvil :-lmao
 

BarMoo

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#3
rolfw said:
I'm sure that all of the providers have reciprocal arrangements Mark, but it is an interesting scenario and probably also covered in SES Astra's disaster recovery folder. :)


PS. How long have you been suffering from stress? :-anvil :-lmao
Since the last time I looked at the price of a decent 2.4m dish.

Have Fun,;)

Mark.
 

pipoo

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#5
Let's just say, if any of BBC leased transponders breaks down and they would be forced to shift to 2C, I would be a very happy man. Especially horizontal ones....give us all of BBC Radio back!
 

PaulR

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#6
It's not part of the Astra fleet - in fact owned by their bitter enemy Eutelsat - but does Eurobird have low band capacity and, if so, could it be brought into the plan?

PaulR
 

Analoguesat

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#7
Eurobird 1 is officially listed as trasmitting on 11200-11700 & 12500-12750
 

BarMoo

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#9
pipoo said:
Let's just say, if any of BBC leased transponders breaks down and they would be forced to shift to 2C, I would be a very happy man. Especially horizontal ones....give us all of BBC Radio back!
Good idea - only 2C is quite happily lodging at 19.2°E.

You want würst, you got it. You want fish and chips - you'll have to wait some.:)

Have fins,

Mark.
 

dbolton

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#10
I think that Astra should widen the beam on the 2D to cover Europe (at least that's what i asked santa for) either that or buy me a nice 3.8M dish, here's hoping that the 2D goes t*ts up
 

Analoguesat

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#11
dbolton said:
I think that Astra should widen the beam on the 2D to cover Europe (at least that's what i asked santa for) either that or buy me a nice 3.8M dish, here's hoping that the 2D goes t*ts up
They cant "widen" the beam - its been designed as a narrow focus bird :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Same design as Astra 3A which spots onto Germany, and gives dreadful reception in south Scotland. You should thank your lucky stars 2D covers as much of Europe as it does. :p

The lucky escape for most enthusiasts was 1K getting dropped into the sea - the coverage for that one was east and west beam with frequency re-use between beams, so you would immediately lose any chance of getting anything off half its channels.....

European satellite operators have been remarkably lucky with a lack of failures so dont hold your breath for a breakdown.

Good news though - its a third of the way throught its life, so if you hang around till 2015, its officially due for replacement!! :D :eek:
 

dbolton

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#12
Just 10 more years then of just channel 5 sounds good to me it will take me that long to save up for the 3.8M dish.
 

Analoguesat

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#13
You will be a bit sick if a fortnight after you install that 3.8m dish, 2D is replaced with a pan Euro beamed bird!:D
 

dbolton

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#14
No not really i would expect something like that to happen i would then convert my dish into a wok and try to get it into the Guiness book of records as the largest wok ever with an oriental standing beside it for auntenticity. I was looking around for news of the 1K I saw the footprints I was very lucky indeed that it failed to launch properly.
 

BarMoo

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#15
Those spot beams from what would have been 1K look a bit odd, i.e., strange territories. Funny how they always cover luxemberg :D

http://www.selkirkshire.demon.co.uk/analoguesat/1kfootprints.html

As for the first footprint image. Well, a footprint that covers ALL of europe and some - utterly outrageous!

It wouldn't be suprised that someone from Mossad, the CIA or Disney emptied out a bit of fuel the night before launch.

Euw, a spot beam conspiracy.:eek:

Have Fun,

Mark.
 

Zorba

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#16
Maybe the next time they go on a space walkabout up there on the space station someone could float over to 2D and p*ss on transponder 41(are they numbered?).and 49 while your at it(itv). ;)
 

solly

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#17
new astra femely will be injoy this september this astra astra 1ka to 19.2 e

i dont know if the 2c will be more to 28.2 e

how i can get new coverate astra 1ka ?
 

BarMoo

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#18
I was looking for launch dates and couldn't find any .....

If encryption had never been an issue, 2C would have been great for the UK. It would have added 16 more low-band transponders to that location and offer a further 24 high-band transponders for back-up in bands E + F

Sadly, encryption (or lack of it) has changed this. Since 2C has a footprint that even a Porsche driver would envy, I don't think it has many friends with UK broadcasters who are either FTA or intend to go FTA and who are happy at restricting their signals to their territory. Encryption, per se, isn't a problem, albeit, I did wonder why Disney were one of the first bouquets to jump to 2D.

Anyway, why move Astra 2C to 28.2°E? For all that I have said - 2D will die eventually.({})

Thereafter, I'm sure we'll see 2E "the nemisis bird" targeting UK TV to particular housing estates, in particular regions within the territory still known as the UK.

Meanwhile, I'll be getting older, be German by nationality and technology will have moved on so, so, much that I'll probably be enjoying the (now subscription) BBC_Sports Channel & ITV_Movies on the back of shit paper.;)

Hope this is clear?

Have Fun,

Mark.
 

skyoutUK

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#19
Analoguesat said:
Good news though - its a third of the way throught its life, so if you hang around till 2015, its officially due for replacement!! :D :eek:
By 2015 its most likely TV from anywhere in the world (not just UK) would be available over broadband internet. Even now you can get most popular programmes as soon as they are aired in the US. Some channels stream their content, BBC has announced they are putting their entire archive on the net. Satellite DTH could go the way of analogue suitcase size mobile phones from 10 or so years ago. Satellites could be used just to cover gaps in wireless broadband coverage on the ground.
 

Likvid

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#20
I beleive so also, i started my hobby in satellite-TV in 1983 when the only channel available was Russian Ghorizont on 4Ghz from 14 W.

It was fun days and it became my profession for 8 years to 1993 or so when i was tired on the market.

It's not fun anymore and hasn't been for 10 years or more, cheap Diseqc motors, small dishes, and cheap quality affecting the market and all Korean makers making an entry and taking more marketshares for each month.

It's not the same DX:in in the digital age as it was in the old analogue days, it was fun during that time and the quality was higher on the content that was broadcasted.

As you say i beleive in 10 years time satellite-TV will almost be dead, maybe 15 years, but around that time i beleive.

I am glad i changed profession in the early 90's.....

Must be hard these days for the sat-veterans if they haven't changed profession yet.
skyoutUK said:
By 2015 its most likely TV from anywhere in the world (not just UK) would be available over broadband internet. Even now you can get most popular programmes as soon as they are aired in the US. Some channels stream their content, BBC has announced they are putting their entire archive on the net. Satellite DTH could go the way of analogue suitcase size mobile phones from 10 or so years ago. Satellites could be used just to cover gaps in wireless broadband coverage on the ground.
 
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