using neighbours dish and second lnb

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doggy

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#1
this is difficult to explain.

i live in a semi and my father in law lives through the wall in the other semi.

he is thinking about get sky world (£41 per month).

i suggested he got a second box for upstairs which would cost him £99 for the box and £10 per month subscription, almost £220 for the first year but hes not keen on it.

so i suggested he signed up for multiroom gave me the second box and i paid him the £220 for the box and the subscription. i also notice its the same price for a second sky+ box as it is for the basic box, £99.

if this works out it would be good financially for me and his daughter, and in the second year when we are doing better we could half the annual cost between us.

i suppose my question is this; do both boxes need to be plugged into a phone line? and what if they are not? can sky tell or block channels or anything?

many thanks
 
BonceChops

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#2
I think both boxes need to be connected to a phone line yes. Just put a phone extension from next door to your sky box - problem solved. 2 Sky+ boxes can be run off one dish with a quad LNB so you only need one dish.
 
rolfw

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#4
You get billed the full amount for your packages and it is possible that they may turn off the recording function, but not sure about that bit.
 
Analoguesat

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#5
This isnt recommended - in certain (unusual) fault conditions, you could end up with your equipment live at 440v if by any chance the houses are on different electrical phases :( You would need an electrical short in the LNB, but its certainly a theoretical possiblity.
 
BonceChops

BonceChops

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#6
Analoguesat said:
This isnt recommended - in certain (unusual) fault conditions, you could end up with your equipment live at 440v if by any chance the houses are on different electrical phases :( You would need an electrical short in the LNB, but its certainly a theoretical possiblity.
Could you explain that theory please? I am interested to know which part of the equipment would be at 440v, the LNB? the satellite receiver? the remote control?

You could say the same about terraced house using 1 aerial mast on a shared chimney with aerials belonging to both houses.

Or a LAN with hubs/switches fed from different phases interconnected with cat 5 cables.

Or a cctv system with camera's around a factory with the video cables connecting to a single multiplexer in the security office.

Neil
 
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easysat

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#7
I guess Analogsat is worried about a fault that causes the mains voltage from the two houses to appear on two conductors within touching distance. If the houses are on different phases, you would then have a large potential between the two bits of wire. Mind you, wouldn't the RCD still trip when you touched the two live wires?
 
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doggy

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#8
i dont understand either.

two lnbs two cables two boxes, how can there be a problem? the only thing shared would be the dish.

how could sky tell if the phone line is connected or not?
 
BonceChops

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#9
I think sky tell your box to do an E.T. (phone home). Then they know it is connected to the phone line. No 'phone home' no connection to phone line. They use the caller ID to make sure it is on the correct phone line. ( it must dial 1470 to make sure caller ID is sent )

You can't use 2 LNB's on one dish on the same satellite.

The signal from the satellite will only have one focus point where the LNB is fastened. You would have to use a quad LNB which has 4 outputs, 2 for each box. If you are taking advantage of a sky package I think they will have to install it for you. If they do you can just replace ( possibly extend with female-female F connectors ) the coax to reach the location you want.

While you drilling holes through walls why not connect together PC's ( if they have one ) share a broadband connection with a router and pay half each.
 
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doggy

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#10
can you explain the quad lnb again i cantr really follow that bit?
ive been at friends houses with two boxes and all theyve had is two lnbs on the one dish and a cable coming from each lnb.
 
BonceChops

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#11
A quad LNB has 4 connections for 4 receivers. A sky+ box needs 2 feeds, 1 for each tuner in the box. It is like having 4 independant LNB's in 1 box. Are you sure your friend has 2 LNB's both set on the same satellite? ie are they both on sky digiboxes? You can get LNB's with 2 outputs ( like half a quad )
 
BonceChops

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#12
easysat said:
I guess Analogsat is worried about a fault that causes the mains voltage from the two houses to appear on two conductors within touching distance. If the houses are on different phases, you would then have a large potential between the two bits of wire. Mind you, wouldn't the RCD still trip when you touched the two live wires?
An RCD trips when it detects a difference in the current in the live and neutral conductors ( 30mA in a domestic installation ). If current was passing from one phase to another this would be an imbalance so an RCD would trip out (if fitted of course).

When you say
when you touched the two live wires?
You would have to touch both phases at exactly the same time to receive a 415v shock. If you touched one first you would get a 240v shock. To receive a shock there has to be a path for current to flow. For example you touch a live cable and current passes from your finger, up your arm, past your heart, down your legs and into whatever your standing on. If you want to try the 415V shock you will need to be wearing wellies or some other non conducting foot wear, grab one phase ( no effect because no connection between you and earth ) and then the other.

So the next time someone tells you they have had a 415v shock ask them in detail what happened. Then you might be able to smile like I do.

Neil
 
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doggy

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#13
it would be a fresh install from sky so they would be supplying the quad. i understand what you mean now.
 
BonceChops

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#14
So they would have to install both boxes in the same house and you would have to move the other yourself. Extending the 2 coax cables might cause some signal loss but if the box ever went faulty you could put it back where it should be and call them out. The other way is to leave the box next door and just run an aerial coax to your TV and change channel using a Sky magic eye. Its a bit more cheeky because it is using next door electricity as well. Does the sky contract say you cant run the RF output to another house I wonder ( probably does )?
 
gameboy

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#15
Doggy I think you can take it that it is possible and I don't think it would take much to achive it.

Your situations is unique and you are only taking advantage of this - great. The drawbacks are stopping the S*y installers drilling holes where they won't be needed and the trust of the other part of the phone extension not being abused.

I would ask the engineers to leave the second box as you haven't decided which room you want it in.

Hook up a phone extension and feed the LNB lines to your home. I'm sure S*y would rather have the extra £10 than nothing!

Remember that any PPV or other online activity will be charged to the original subscriber.
 
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easysat

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#16
BonceChops said:
So the next time someone tells you they have had a 415v shock ask them in detail what happened. Then you might be able to smile like I do.
Well I once managed to get a shock when dismantling a faulty connector on a mains lead - I'd stupidly left the other end plugged in! I didn't even manage to trip the supply and I lived to tell the tale. One good reason for not taking up electrical engineering if you have sweaty palms.

Apologies to Analoguesat for misspelling his name; I've been reading too many (American) books on <<analog>> design recently.
 
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doggy

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#17
thanks mate. the other suscriber is my father inlaw so there wont be a problem, ill just give him the years worth of money up front.
youre right, its best to ask the sky guy to leave the second box with me.
what i cant get my headaround is the phone line, even if the two boxes were in one house some folk have two phone lines.
 
BonceChops

BonceChops

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#18
easysat said:
Well I once managed to get a shock when dismantling a faulty connector on a mains lead - I'd stupidly left the other end plugged in! I didn't even manage to trip the supply and I lived to tell the tale. One good reason for not taking up electrical engineering if you have sweaty palms.

Apologies to Analoguesat for misspelling his name; I've been reading too many (American) books on <<analog>> design recently.
:D I bet you have been more carefull since - still only a 240v shock
 
BonceChops

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#19
doggy said:
thanks mate. the other suscriber is my father inlaw so there wont be a problem, ill just give him the years worth of money up front.
youre right, its best to ask the sky guy to leave the second box with me.
what i cant get my headaround is the phone line, even if the two boxes were in one house some folk have two phone lines.
You have to have your sky box plugged into the phone number you registered with sky. If you have 2 lines you just plug box into the correct line you told sky about.
 
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kebabinho

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#20
you dont have to plug the second box into the phone line. expats get mates to get a second box and then ship it out to them.

-my mistake the guy who i know who is doing that has just been cuaght by sky and is now paying £41 for the second box too.

im not sure why you can just but a phone extension thorugh when you put the cable through
 
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