Advice Needed Which sats? Toroidal 90 in Europe

[RimaNTSS]

if there a larger Toroidal Satellites Antenna anywhere on the market

If it is not question of money than Torus antenna would be good option http://www.gdsatcom.com/Antennas/Data_Sheets/655-0037C_7M_Torus.pdf

what is your opinion about a Siamese Toroidal Satellites Antenna system consisting of two antennas back to back, one facing East and the other West?

Are you speaking about 2 separate antennas? Why call them "Siamese Toroidal Satellites Antenna"? If 2 antennas than no need to point then East and West, should be South-East and South-West.

Where would I begin to look for a "Silent or Low Noise" mortised satellite antenna!

If Google does not bring any positive results, try to install usual motorized antenna and, who knows, maybe it's noise level will acceptable.

 

[mariust5]

Also i think a channel list would be helpful , that way we know exactly what satellites you need to pull in and maybe advise on getting the various subscriptions sorted .

Diseqc motors are not that loud in my opinion but by the sounds of it you need instant access to the channels in 4 locations and the only way to have that is fixed system , 2-3 dishes and a lot of quad LNB's , several diseqc switches and a few cables .

 

[Captain Jack]

I like that 7m dish! That doesn't look like a dish. Maybe it doesn't need any planning permission?

 

[sonnetpete]

I like that 7m dish! That doesn't look like a dish. Maybe it doesn't need any planning permission?

According to the pdf spec sheet, it's 24 metres wide by 7 metres high and weighs over 8 tonnes....I'd be wanting a structural survey before worrying about planning permission LOL...

 

[Captain Jack]

At not a one man installation job then...

But that thing would get every satellite up there at the same time!

 

[Doc Sarah]

If it is not question of money than Torus antenna would be good option http://www.gdsatcom.com/Antennas/Data_Sheets/655-0037C_7M_Torus.pdf

Are you speaking about 2 separate antennas? Why call them "Siamese Toroidal Satellites Antenna"? If 2 antennas than no need to point then East and West, should be South-East and South-West.

If Google does not bring any positive results, try to install usual motorized antenna and, who knows, maybe it's noise level will acceptable.

Hello RimaNTSS

First thanks for your informative and illustrative response. I love links to information as it affords me the luxury of reading the data myself! So thank you for the excellent data presented in your link.

I am researching the satellite dish identified in the link option as we speak. I will speak to
General Dynamics SATCOM Technologies about their Torus antenna in my application!


I do have a technical question however; given what I have learned in this forum; I now know that the reason a motorised system can deliver superior satellite performance and signal to noise ratio is because it can dedicate and maximise the collection capabilities of the mounted LNB’s on the antenna while pointed at a single satellite, even though there are disadvantages when moving between lets say 48º E and 12.5º W. I have a friend here with a ground station on her horse ranch near my home; of course she has no nose abatement problems because she lives on 5 hectares property and far enough from her neighbours that noise is not an issue.

Her "satellite rig & dish" is above 300cm in size and has a semi-fluid (viscous fluid of some sort?) gimbal mount on which the dish rotates as needed? He system also has a GPS satellite tracking system built in (see photo below, her system is similar) and therefore is always accurate, I like that but don’t see any value added in mounting a GPS system on satellite rig as my system is fixed! However, I would add GPS in any motorised system I would be considering because it can auto adjust azimuth and all the alignment necessary to track any satellite geosynchronous located above my area of Catalunya.

DISCLAIMER: The attached photo is a stock satellite antenna photo! It was substituted because my friend is apprehensive about her property being identified! She does not want anyone in any forum to recognise here ranch or home, therefore a stock photo is submitted in illustration to protect her privacy rights. That said! I can categorically state that her system is similar in size and construction!

However, I noticed a serious time 'lag and latency' as her rig tuned between satellites from the time it took her satellite rig to select a satellite in the South-East to one on the South-West, something I do not experience on my current Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna system in which any channel I select is instantly displayed even when moving between satellites of great distance between them? This is what sold me on Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna in the first place and it was an easy choice over the noise of a motored unit, the limited size (90cm) of the Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna however is a problem!

Regarding Siamesing a pair of Toroidal 90cm Satellites:

The idea of "Siamesing" two Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antennas with multiple LNB’s is not my original idea. The idea was a suggestion for the Toroidal T90cm Satellites Antenna manufacturer in China via the sales team at Alibaba Company in China to whom I directed a request for a larger version of the Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna.

(http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna ).

I explained my problem to the Alibaba Company satellites sales technical team! They suggested that I use two (2) Toroidal T90cm Satellites Antenna back to back and facing polar opposites fit the LNB’s as necessary, South-East to South-West, or as necessary and that would resolve my problem.

The point is the Siamesing is an excellent solution but it does not overcome the dish size limitations pointed out here by more knowledgeable members to who’s expertise I must defer as they have been doing an excellent job of educating me about satellite technologies and are of great inspiration to me!

I thank you so very much for your salient information; I will keep you posted of what I learn.

Doctor Sarah

 

[Doc Sarah]

Model 700-70TCK Torus Multiple Band Antenna, by General Dynamic. If anyone here knows of a EU supplier of this antenna I would appreciate the information?

 

[Doc Sarah]

If it is not question of money than Torus antenna would be good option http://www.gdsatcom.com/Antennas/Data_Sheets/655-0037C_7M_Torus.pdf

Are you speaking about 2 separate antennas? Why call them "Siamese Toroidal Satellites Antenna"? If 2 antennas than no need to point then East and West, should be South-East and South-West.

If Google does not bring any positive results, try to install usual motorized antenna and, who knows, maybe it's noise level will acceptable.

The term: "Siamesing" was used discriptively by Alibaba Company satellites here: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna Is there an alternative term for two discs pointed in opposite directions but in close proximity to aid alignment?

 

[Doc Sarah]

According to the pdf spec sheet, it's 24 metres wide by 7 metres high and weighs over 8 tonnes....I'd be wanting a structural survey before worrying about planning permission LOL...

Unfortunately I agree, additionally the villa plots in my community sharing considerably once you have a pool! There is simply not enough space in the rear for such a monster but this would work well in my native Sweden if it has a anti-ice system! 8 Tonnes? WoW surely that would sink on the soft earth of our paddock there, we would have to build a concrete slab for it but that is impossible here, but maybe thy have an alternative compact solution this is why I am going to talk to them!

 

[Doc Sarah]

At not a one man installation job then...

But that thing would get every satellite up there at the same time!

Would it do that? 45º E through 12.5º E or alternatively 14º W / 15 ºW thorough 28.2º/28.5 º Ost. Can anyone here tell me what constitutes "EVERYTHING" South-East to South-West in geosynchronous orbit above me?

 

[Captain Jack]

That dish has a coverage of 70 degrees so anything within that range - from 40E to 30W for example.

http://www.lyngsat.com/europe.html

It also has a beamwidth of 0.3 degrees! That means installation has to be extremely precise. Half a cm the wrong way and you won't have any signal. Unlike smaller dishes, which have a larger beamwidth - typically 1 to 2 degrees, which means if you're within 1-2 degrees of the satellite, you'll get some sort of signal from it.

 

[Doc Sarah]

Also i think a channel list would be helpful , that way we know exactly what satellites you need to pull in and maybe advise on getting the various subscriptions sorted .

Diseqc motors are not that loud in my opinion but by the sounds of it you need instant access to the channels in 4 locations and the only way to have that is fixed system , 2-3 dishes and a lot of quad LNB's , several diseqc switches and a few cables .

Answer to your first question: Everything that broadcast commercially available content in all 28+ EU in addition to all other fringe signals I can capture in nearby countries South-East to South-West in geosynchronous orbit above me?

Answer to your first question: Having increased my knowledge of satellite technologies exponentially since I joined this forum, thanks to your generous contributors, in hindsight I should have mounted a base station like my friend with a 3+ meter fluid motorises dish out back!

The reality is my city ordinances control not only noise but the exterior beautification of the neighbourhood. They quite rightly believe their neighbours should do nothing to lower the property values of the villas here which are between 3.5€ million to 7+€ million due to proximity of the beaches and yacht mornings local to us!

At night here it is so quite you can hear a pin drop!

 

[Doc Sarah]

That dish has a coverage of 70 degrees so anything within that range - from 40E to 30W for example.

http://www.lyngsat.com/europe.html

Thank you!

 

[RimaNTSS]

I do have a technical question however

Do not see any technical questions.... Or it was about GPS satellite tracking system? I do not think such a system needed (if it exists at all), especially when we speak about installation of toroidal 90cm antenna.

the limited size (90cm) of the Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna however is a problem!

What do you mean problem? 90cm antenna works like 90cm antenna without any problems, majority of people use 90cm (even smaller ones) and happy about performance of it and amount of services received.

I can categorically state that her system is similar in size and construction!

Do you have any idea, what kind of channels friend of you see which you can not, but desire?

They suggested that I use two (2) Toroidal T90cm Satellites Antenna back to back and facing polar opposites fit the LNB’s as necessary, South-East to South-West, or as necessary and that would resolve my problem.

I think problem here that you do not have any problems but desperately trying to resolve them!
I would suggest: Look for good installer. Ask him to finish installation of your toroidal antenna with 10 quad LNBs. Enjoy all the channels for some time and if after 1/2 you feel you miss something, then think about upgrading of your system.

 

[Doc Sarah]

Do not see any technical questions.... Or it was about GPS satellite tracking system? I do not think such a system needed (if it exists at all), especially when we speak about installation of toroidal 90cm antenna.
What do you mean problem? 90cm antenna works like 90cm antenna without any problems, majority of people use 90cm (even smaller ones) and happy about performance of it and amount of services received.
Do you have any idea, what kind of channels friend of you see which you can not, but desire?
I think problem here that you do not have any problems but desperately trying to resolve them!
I would suggest: Look for good installer. Ask him to finish installation of your toroidal antenna with 10 quad LNBs. Enjoy all the channels for some time and if after 1/2 you feel you miss something, then think about upgrading of your system.

You may have a valid point in your observation!

The technical question was which is the best to have, the toroidal antenna system of a motorised unit?

My friends see's just about anything this side of the horizon, her GPS tracking system will swing the dish and LNB and point it accurately enough to gain incredible final to noise ration. He signal strength from Astra are all exponentially higher than mine!

I reiterate, I have already requested several offers from as far as Barcelona to complete the system, I am awaiting my offers to finalise the install but I am some ways outside Barcelona for installers to travel so it will get done when someone is available!

 

[RimaNTSS]

"Which is the best to have, the toroidal antenna system of a motorized unit?" is also not a technical question! Both systems have their pluses and minuses. And to say which system is best to have you should apply some criteria during comparison. Some examples of criteria: weight, physical dimensions, color, price, wind sustainability, making noise, time between channel switching, brand, maintenance frequency, possibility to get some particular signals, mirror size, prettiness etc. Some of those criteria is easy to measure and compare, some are difficult. For some people one criteria could be more important than other one, for other person would be completely opposite. Can you answer question: "Which car is better to have Mercedes or BMW?" It is basically same question you are asking. Is it technical? I do not think so.
Dish size is always important. Bigger dish, more strong signals you are getting and also getting signals which small dish can not even lock.
I do not know what you mean by "GPS tracking system ", perhaps it is for moving objects like cars or ships, but house is not moving anywhere, so maybe she has just motorized system.
So, do you know at least one TV channel which your friend can watch and you do not?

 

[skomedal]

I do not know what you mean by "GPS tracking system

Might mean "" USALS ""

 

[Doc Sarah]

Might mean "" USALS ""

Exactly: USALS = Universal Satellite Automatic Location System and I am extremely happy be contributing some information of use to someone here.

I have been the beneficiary of a process of satellites education on this forum I am extremely happy with! It has been a catalyst of change in my understanding about satellites and commercial access to them.

For more information on how a USALS works watch this YouTube video:

 

[BM300]

To summarize;
A- Optemize your existing Toroidal setup with a reputable installer.
B- Get a motorized dish installed (similar to what your friend has), to get all the channels missing or week on the Toroidal system.

You will the have the best of both worlds:
1- Instant channel change from the Toroidal.
2- Better channel range and reception with a little waiting for the dish to move from satellite to satellite and lock onto the wanted channel.

 

[BM300]

Hello Doc,
Any latest news about how you solved your system problem?