Advice Needed Which sats? Toroidal 90 in Europe

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
MY ANSWER

MY RESPONSE:
I love this comment: "Swiss channels are easily available, but mainly encrypted so you need an annual card - only available to Swiss nationals or those with Swiss contacts". I have a home in Zug, Switzerland so the card is no issue!
 

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,849
Reaction score
964
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
Own a T90 (110cm rendering as a poor antenna 90cm in Costa Brava).
Input for what you want little antenna, you'd need one T200.
Conclusion is small antenna you have for what you want, you'd need some fixed antenna other than the T90 for some positions.

By having the switch / DiSEqC ==> 16 DiSEqC Centauri, 90cm antenna really is like a 70cm antenna to some extent, that switch loses 5dB, so the poor performance of the antenna, which then yields less especially in ends.
From the peninsula, to put 14-16LNB you have to put in the Astra ends 19'2ºE, on the other side to 30º West Hispasat not 100% tune into these positions, since the gain of the antenna will be 45cm .

The solution as I say, really is a T200 (from the mainland) or a motorized antenna.
You want to use the T90, either, but I notice that you will need an antenna but to 28'2º East.

As you have 4 tuners, you could control 4 motorized antennas and losses would be minimal, antennas suitable satellite you want to tune measures.

Feeling it much, as in the garden do not want / can, you'll have to put on the wall of the house (front) than to 28'2ºEste a very large for 28'2ºEste antenna.

As you want to see the TV well, you have a good TV, and you want certain channels, you need a good antenna and feeling it much, you have no worth (so to speak).
The installer will install what you asked.

Personally, instead of asking after, ask before you start the installation, few solution already has the problem.
-----------------------
Tienes una T90 (110cm que rinde como una mala antena de 90cm en costa Brava).
De entrada para lo que quieres es poca antena, necesitarias una T200.
Conclusion es pequeña la antena que tienes para lo que quieres, necesitarias alguna antena fija aparte de la T90 para algunas posiciones.

Al tener el conmutador/DiSEqC ==> Centauri 16 DiSEqC, la antena de 90cm realmente es como una antena de 70cm por dar alguna medida, ese conmutador pierde 5dB, por eso el bajo rendimiento de la antenas, que luego rinde menos sobre todo en los extremos.
Desde la peninsula, para poder poner 14-16LNB tienes que poner en los extremos Astra a 119'2ºEste a Hispasat a 30ºOeste y no sintonizaras al 100% estas posiciones, ya que la ganancia de la antena sera de 45cm.

La solucion como digo, en serio es una T200 (desde la peninsula) o una antena motorizada.
Que quieres usar la T90, bien, pero ya aviso que necesitaras una antena mas para 28'2ºEste.

Como tienes 4 sintonizadores, podrias controlar 4 antenas motorizadas y las perdidas serian minimas, las antenas de las medidas adecuadas al satelite que quieres sintonizar.

Sintiendolo mucho, como en el jardin no quieres/puedes, tendras que poner en la pared de la casa (fachada) que de a 28'2ºEste una antena muy grande para 28'2ºEste.

Como quieres ver la TV bien, tienes una buena TV, como quieres ciertos canales, necesitas una buena antena y sintiendolo mucho, lo que tienes no vale (es un decir).
El instalador instalo lo que pediste.

Personalmente, en lugar de preguntar despues, preguntaria antes de empezar la instalacion, pocas solucion tiene ya el problema.

Test de calidad (instalador=190cm, antena 180cm)
PIC_0007.jpg

Antena%2B1%2C60%2Bmoraleja.JPG


As you indicate LNB 4 outputs, 4 DiSEqC, you feed 4 teams or all 4 for TV tuners.?
There is little doubt that I have.
-------------------
Como indicas LNB de 4 salidas, 4 DiSEqC, alimentas a 4 equipos o todo para la TV de 4 sintonizadores.?
Es una pequeña duda que tengo.

Buy 2xT90 years a la regale a friend, the other when the weather improves I plan to ride (this year fail), bothers the dish at home.
------------
Compre hace años 2xT90, una la regale a un amigo, la otra cuando mejore el tiempo tengo pensado montar (de este año no pasa), molesta mucho el plato por casa.
 

RimaNTSS

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
5,608
Reaction score
6,083
Points
113
Age
58
My Satellite Setup
Some SAT-related hardware.
My Location
N-E from Riga
I want to know more this time around, this is why I need to know the "optimal" satellites I need to be pointed at so I can tell them what I want instead of settling for what they 'say' I should have! Given the satellites and programming I have previously selected I need to know the "Optimal" stateless I can point those 16 LMB's too! That is my sole question, how I manage it will be determined by the professional I give the list too! Can you tell me which satellites it should be?
In that case: firstly- your professional will not be able to install and get decent signal on all 16 LNBs you have :cool:
Secondly, for some satellites your antenna will be too small to get all channels.
Do you have your antenna already installed? Could you show some pictures?
So, I would suggest following list of satellites to be given to your invited professional:
1- Astra 28,2*E
2- Badr 26*E
3- Astra 23,5*E
4- Astra 19,2*E
5- Eutelsat 16*E
6- Hotbird 13*E
7- Eurobird 9*E
8- Astra 4,8*E
9- Thor 0,8*W
10- Eutelsat 5*W
11- Eutelsat 8*W
As you can see, maximum you can get is 11 satellites, and that is because your LNBs are too big to be placed very close to each other and receive signals from satellites with separation about 2*.
In reality, position #11 could be skipped at all, and then you stop at list of only 10 satellites.
Happy New Year. :rolleyes:
 

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,849
Reaction score
964
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
The normal separation for LNB's in this antenna is 3º, if we use LNB extrecha head, can put 2º are a little more expensive, but no biggie right ?, not forget that only brings supports for 5 LNB's the rest the need to buy.

Stock network
12070019.jpg


In the case of the antenna have a paper template to adjust the antenna.
Here is a website to make the process easier.
http://www.satlex.de/en/wavefrontie...ocation=&la=42.0228&lo=3.2245&country_code=es

Costa Brava Spain 42.0228 ° N, 3.2245 ° E.
The footprint northern De 28'2ºEste would not have to have problems, as comment, missed the DiSeqC you want to use or have is very high (5 d.B than the wiring (length + quality cable), may also be small antenna for these channels .

The antenna has an arc of 40 ° and provide a return of 80% to 65%, this involved.?
Focused to a satellite antenna 80% yield ==> 39dB (antenna as a bad or good 90cm 85cm).

Satellites to calculate +/- 10º yielding a 80'0% ==> 39dB ==> 85cm antenna
Satellites to calculate +/- 15º yielding a 72.5% ==> 36dB ==> 65cm antenna
Satellites to calculate +/- 20º yielding a 65'0% ==> 32dB ==> 50cm antenna

Result, we can not put 28ºEste at one end, we must focus the antenna to this position.
I personally would put a good antenna fixed to 28ºE 100cm and the rest with the T90.
In Barcelona as a reference for Astra 2E / Astra 2F footprint actualemnte nor 180cm primary focus being on null signal area where you live UK, not like this theme really.


For years I see the features of DiSEqC 16OUT you have and 5d.B lost is only possible if we have 2 switches in series / waterfall inside the box, for satellites with much signal is no problem, but for weak satellites, best not to use.

Not now recall some DiSEqCx16 model that has less lost, then review in this house, personally have a very cheap 8 outputs (7 €) and 2'5dB lost (according to professional measuring equipment) that is within normal .
-----------------------
La separacion normal para los LNB's en esta antena es de 3º, si utilizamos LNB de cabeza extrecha, los podemos poner a 2º, son un poco mas caros, pero no es problema verdad?, no olvides que solo trae soportes para 5 LNB's el resto los tienes que comprar.

Foto de la red

En la caja de la antena tenemos una plantilla de papel para ajustar la antena.
Aqui una web para hacer el proceso mas facil.
http://www.satlex.de/en/wavefrontie...ocation=&la=42.0228&lo=3.2245&country_code=es


Costa Brava España 42.0228°N, 3.2245°E.
La huella norte De 28'2ºEste no tendrias que tener problemas, como comente, las perdidas del DiSeqC que quieres utilizar o tienes es muy alto (5d.B aparte del cableado (longitud + calidad del cable), puede que tambien sea pequeña la antena para estos canales.

La antena tiene un arco de 40º y un redimiento del 80% a 65%, esto que supone.?
Centrada la antena a un satelite rinde 80% ==> 39dB (como una mala antena de 90cm o una buena de 85cm).

Los satelites a +/-10º calculemos que rinde un 80'0% ==>39dB ==> antena de 85cm
Los satelites a +/-15º calculemos que rinde un 72'5% ==>36dB ==> antena de 65cm
Los satelites a +/-20º calculemos que rinde un 65'0% ==>32dB ==> antena de 50cm

Resultado, no podemos poner 28ºEste en un extremo, tenemos que centrar la antena a esta posicion.
Personalmente pondria una buena antena fija de 100cm a 28ºE y el resto con la T90.
En Barcelona como referencia para el Astra 2E/Astra 2F huella UK actualemnte ni con 180cm de foco primario al estar en zona de señal nula, donde vives, no se como esta el tema realmente.

Hace años que mire las caracteristicas del DiSEqC 16out que tienes y 5dB de perdidas solo es posible si tenemos 2 conmutadores en serie/cascada dentro de la caja, para satelites con mucha señal no es problema, pero para satelites debiles, mejor no usar.

No recuerdo ahora algun modelo de DiSEqCx16 que tenga menos perdidas, luego repaso los de esta casa, personalmente tengo unos de 8 salidas muy baratos (7€) y 2'5dB de perdidas (segun equipo de medida profesional) que esta dentro de lo normal.
 

Mickha

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
5,994
Reaction score
895
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
1.2M Channel Master, 1224 motor, VU+ Duo 2
My Location
North West
Have you checked the audio options, on the channels you're receiving, quite a number of premium channels offer a second audio option, which is usually that of the makers, in most cases American.
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
35,640
Reaction score
8,590
Points
113
Age
59
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
MY RESPONSE:
A motorises antenna system is out of the question!


Could you get away with two antennas/dishes in your location ?

Could you get away with more than two ?
 

hairybadger

Bricoleur
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
1,377
Reaction score
778
Points
113
Location
46.1N 6.4E
My Satellite Setup
see sig
My Location
near Geneva, Haute-Savoie, France
Could you get away with two antennas/dishes in your location ?
Could you get away with more than two ?
The "professional" installer might charge another 2200EUR + benefits for the second installation :)
 

daro2096

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
451
Reaction score
48
Points
28
Age
49
My Satellite Setup
No setup at present
My Location
Consett, Durham
With modification:
28.2
26?
23.5
19.2
16
13
10/9
7
4.8
0.8w
5w
12w

Bear in mind though that you won't get all channels esp those on a narrowed spot beam like the UK beam on 28.2e and the Nordic beam on 0.8w. Back in 2000 using a channel master 1.2m dish I was able to receive the Nordic stations that were narrowed on Norway/Sweden but only when the weather was good but I lived in the north east of England.
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
Sarahs Villa Cost Del Sol2Property.jpg Sarahs Villa Cost Del Sol3Property.jpg Sarahs Villa Cost Del Sol4Property.jpg Sarahs Villa Cost Del Sol6Property.png Sarahs Villa Cost Del Sol7Property.jpg Sarahs Villa Cost Del Sol8Property.jpg Hello Guy's,

I must state that though by some of the satellite installation companies are honest in this area of the country most are not! They are ‘rip off’ artist who prey on pensioners and expatriates who have a need to keep in touch with their home countries TV systems, therefore most installers here are from the UK and those

Prey on their own countrymen by gouging them for the instillation of satellites systems, especially SKY, accessible from this community! Having said that I must convey my gratitude to all of your who have offered advice to me in this forum. Your information and help is greatly appreciated I can assure you! You have all been incredibly helpful in educate me in this area of expertise, or at least made me comfortable enough with the terms, technologies and knowledgeable enough to know what to ask of any professional satellite installation companies I will requested to complete the system here.

Some of you have suggested that I use a "Motorised Antenna", here are my legal limitations!

The city in which I live has a noise abatement and size ordinance for satellites mounted in a fixed roof or side of a building. Additionally, the rules of my gated community have implemented rules governing what can be mounded on the roof in weight and size because we are in an area of high wind velocity. These regulatory frameworks restrict the size of antenna and type of motorised antenna I can mount on my rooftop.

The regulations most egregious condition is the standard incorporated for noise abatement of roof mounted motorised satellite antennas and especially those of a size greater than 120cm mounted to the roof of a residential dwelling. If a motorised antenna is deployed it must produce a noise level less than 65 dBA SPL at 1 meter from source at maximum! If a single neighbour can hear the motor as I move the dish it will be ordered removed after that first complaint. This recent ordnance has literally removed motorised antenna system because my neighbours must not be able to ‘hear’ the motor running as it switch stations especially in the middle of the night, which is why I was advised to use two (2) Toroidal 90cm satellites antennas instead of a motorised unit.

The installer to whom I contracted the satellite system (name withheld) is from the Adult Content industry; therefore literally after spending over 2,200€ on instillation alone I still have a incomplete satellites antenna system with only 3 LNB’ currently installed of the 16 designed for the system and tuned as follows:

28.5 Astra DiSEqC number A=1
19.2 Astra DiSEqC number B=2
13E Hotbird DiSEqC number C=3

I have a further thirteen (13) INVERTO Black Premium Selected 0.2DB LNB QUAD L40 ULTRA HGLN LNB’s still in their boxes in my home which have not yet been installed. I am undecided if I am going with two Toroidal 90cm satellites antennas or staying with the single Toroidal antenna system I have already installed on which to add the additional 13 LNB’s.

My single question to the fantastic members of this forum, in which I asked you all to which satellite’s should I point the 16 LNB’s of my proposed system toward will determine if I go with two (2) T90 Toroidal antenna system or just one is based on a simple question:

Can I obtain all the satellites channels, country and content (previously stated) I am interested in receiving on all 4 satellite TV tuners in my home using a single Toroidal antenna system”?

Therefore I rely need an answer to my initial question posed; “Which satellites should I point the remaining 13 LNB’s toward in European Air Space: I need to tune the following content from my location here in the Costa’s in northern Spain!

1) UK/US EnglishLanguage Programming
(Current, Cultural and Adult Content in - English*)

2) Scandinavian Language’s Programming
(Current, Cultural and Adult Content in - Scandinavian/English* Language’s!

3) German Language Programming
(Current, Cultural and Adult Content in - German/English* Language’s)

4) Swiss Language Programming
(Current, Cultural and Adult Content in - German/French/English* - Language’s)

5) French Language Programming
(Current, Cultural and Adult Content in - French/English*- Language’s)

6) Spanish Language Programming
(Current, Cultural and Adult Content in - Catalan & Castilian/English*- Language’s)

7) All Adult Programming Content in any available Language!

If anyone reading this posting knows of any alternative link to answers related to this question please do not hesitate to post there here so I can like there to determine of there is an alternative solution to augment the equipment I have already purchased

Bang & Olufsen and Eye TV Sat Systems by Elgato
I have three (3) Bang & Olufsen TV’s, which include Satellite Tuners; the fourth TV is actually an Apple iMac 5K Macintosh computers I have configured as a Media Server by connecting it to a 12TB External RAID Disc array for recorded satellite or downloaded content I use the EyeTV Application, I was unable to find a satellite Electronic Program Guide covering all satellite content broadcast in Europe so I bought the EyeTV Sat for the Mac/Windows device and Application with its embedded Gracenote http://www.gracenote.com/video/data_guides/ electronic Program Guide (EPG) which placed every satellite I could tune on any of my LNB content on my screen with the added ability to program that signal and record anything I could tune directly or as a scheduled recording!

The Elgato EyeTV Sat satellite multi satellite receiver receives DVB-S and DVB-S2 satellite TV signals from all satellites over Europe. The EyeTV Sat box found here https://www.elgato.com/en/eyetv/eyetv-sat has an integrated CI slot, which enables you to receive satellite Pay TV on your Mac. All you need is a compatible combination of conditional access module (CAM) and a Pay TV subscription smart-card. Please check with your Pay TV provider to verify support of third-party standard CI receivers. The alternative EyeTV Netstream 4Sat found here https://www.elgato.com/en/eyetv/eyetv-netstream-4sat is even more flexible.

Here are photos to my components and installation environment, I hope they can put into context my problem for 3 of the TV's displayed (one is already connected to a antenna system) and the Apple Mac PC Media Server.

Thank you

Doctor SarahSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol2Property.jpgSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol3Property.jpgSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol4Property.jpgSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol6Property.pngSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol7Property.jpgSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol8Property.jpgSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol2Property.jpg Sarahs Villa Cost Del Sol3Property.jpgSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol4Property.jpgSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol6Property.pngSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol7Property.jpgSarahs Villa Cost Del Sol8Property.jpg
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
I'm sorry I have no idea of how so many images have been posted?
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
With modification:
28.2
26?
23.5
19.2
16
13
10/9
7
4.8
0.8w
5w
12w

Bear in mind though that you won't get all channels esp those on a narrowed spot beam like the UK beam on 28.2e and the Nordic beam on 0.8w. Back in 2000 using a channel master 1.2m dish I was able to receive the Nordic stations that were narrowed on Norway/Sweden but only when the weather was good but I lived in the north east of England.
THANK YOU!
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
Could you get away with two antennas/dishes in your location ?

Could you get away with more than two ?

Hello Channel Hopper, yes that was one of the options posed to me by my prior installer but his terms were by then completely unreasonable both sexually and finically so I did not believe him when he proposed 2 x Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna's. I covered this is my latest posting in this forum, please read and answer when you can. Thank your for your examination of my problem and resolution you have proposed.

QUESTION:
A
) If I did opt for two Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna, which would have the potential of deploying 32 LNB's funded to whatever was available. What satellites would I point this LNB's to gain faithful reception during good weather?

B) Is there such a think as a Toroidal T120cm as opposed to the T90 Satellites Antenna I am using?

C) Is there any larger Toroidal Satellites Antenna, non-motorised solutions, you are aware of that offers me a solution to my installation limitations stated in my prior posting?

And finally:

D) Are you aware of any Multi CAM break out box through which I can add more than a single CAM or dual CAM to my system! CAM swapping seems like a problem awaiting a commercial solution, or has anyone accomplished this tricky task yet? The objective would be top have a can plugged into the primary CAM slot of the TV and that being connected to an external chassis in which you can plug in Multiple CAM's which saves you having to shut down your system each time you need to swap out a CAM. This break out box would allow you to load as many cams as you have and the receiver just seeing the required cam as already connected? Know of anything like that I can get a link too?

Thank you again Channel Hopper!
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
The normal separation for LNB's in this antenna is 3º, if we use LNB extrecha head, can put 2º are a little more expensive, but no biggie right ?, not forget that only brings supports for 5 LNB's the rest the need to buy.

Stock network
12070019.jpg


In the case of the antenna have a paper template to adjust the antenna.
Here is a website to make the process easier.
http://www.satlex.de/en/wavefrontie...ocation=&la=42.0228&lo=3.2245&country_code=es

Costa Brava Spain 42.0228 ° N, 3.2245 ° E.
The footprint northern De 28'2ºEste would not have to have problems, as comment, missed the DiSeqC you want to use or have is very high (5 d.B than the wiring (length + quality cable), may also be small antenna for these channels .

The antenna has an arc of 40 ° and provide a return of 80% to 65%, this involved.?
Focused to a satellite antenna 80% yield ==> 39dB (antenna as a bad or good 90cm 85cm).

Satellites to calculate +/- 10º yielding a 80'0% ==> 39dB ==> 85cm antenna
Satellites to calculate +/- 15º yielding a 72.5% ==> 36dB ==> 65cm antenna
Satellites to calculate +/- 20º yielding a 65'0% ==> 32dB ==> 50cm antenna

Result, we can not put 28ºEste at one end, we must focus the antenna to this position.
I personally would put a good antenna fixed to 28ºE 100cm and the rest with the T90.
In Barcelona as a reference for Astra 2E / Astra 2F footprint actualemnte nor 180cm primary focus being on null signal area where you live UK, not like this theme really.


For years I see the features of DiSEqC 16OUT you have and 5d.B lost is only possible if we have 2 switches in series / waterfall inside the box, for satellites with much signal is no problem, but for weak satellites, best not to use.

Not now recall some DiSEqCx16 model that has less lost, then review in this house, personally have a very cheap 8 outputs (7 €) and 2'5dB lost (according to professional measuring equipment) that is within normal .
-----------------------
La separacion normal para los LNB's en esta antena es de 3º, si utilizamos LNB de cabeza extrecha, los podemos poner a 2º, son un poco mas caros, pero no es problema verdad?, no olvides que solo trae soportes para 5 LNB's el resto los tienes que comprar.

Foto de la red

En la caja de la antena tenemos una plantilla de papel para ajustar la antena.
Aqui una web para hacer el proceso mas facil.
http://www.satlex.de/en/wavefrontie...ocation=&la=42.0228&lo=3.2245&country_code=es


Costa Brava España 42.0228°N, 3.2245°E.
La huella norte De 28'2ºEste no tendrias que tener problemas, como comente, las perdidas del DiSeqC que quieres utilizar o tienes es muy alto (5d.B aparte del cableado (longitud + calidad del cable), puede que tambien sea pequeña la antena para estos canales.

La antena tiene un arco de 40º y un redimiento del 80% a 65%, esto que supone.?
Centrada la antena a un satelite rinde 80% ==> 39dB (como una mala antena de 90cm o una buena de 85cm).

Los satelites a +/-10º calculemos que rinde un 80'0% ==>39dB ==> antena de 85cm
Los satelites a +/-15º calculemos que rinde un 72'5% ==>36dB ==> antena de 65cm
Los satelites a +/-20º calculemos que rinde un 65'0% ==>32dB ==> antena de 50cm

Resultado, no podemos poner 28ºEste en un extremo, tenemos que centrar la antena a esta posicion.
Personalmente pondria una buena antena fija de 100cm a 28ºE y el resto con la T90.
En Barcelona como referencia para el Astra 2E/Astra 2F huella UK actualemnte ni con 180cm de foco primario al estar en zona de señal nula, donde vives, no se como esta el tema realmente.

Hace años que mire las caracteristicas del DiSEqC 16out que tienes y 5dB de perdidas solo es posible si tenemos 2 conmutadores en serie/cascada dentro de la caja, para satelites con mucha señal no es problema, pero para satelites debiles, mejor no usar.

No recuerdo ahora algun modelo de DiSEqCx16 que tenga menos perdidas, luego repaso los de esta casa, personalmente tengo unos de 8 salidas muy baratos (7€) y 2'5dB de perdidas (segun equipo de medida profesional) que esta dentro de lo normal.

Hola Tururu, muchas gracias por las sugerencias aquí!
Reflejé algunos componentes de la instalación de satélite desde mi casa en Granollers, Barcelona Catalunya cuando me mudé a los costos para los meses más fríos! Algunas partes de este sistema inicial trabajaron allí con 3 LNB! Sin embargo, las señales de los satélites siempre estaba sujeta a problemas de recepción debido al mal tiempo cuando el tiempo era bueno todo funcionó muy bien, cuando lo hizo no algunas estaciones no dan una señal fiable. Aquí en los costos el clima es más predecible pero no tengo ni idea de qué satélites óptimamente mis 16 de LMB deben apuntar a? Hice la compra de los brazos de soporte adicionales para una dotación completa de 16 LNB apoyado en los satélites Antena toroidal 90cm, pero mi preocupación ahora es si tengo un plato grande suficiente aquí y si hay una mayor toroidal satélites Antena disponible y de quién?
Gracias de nuevo!

Hello Tururu, thank you so much for the suggestions here!
I mirrored some satellite installation components from my home in Granollers, Barcelona Catalunya when I moved down to the Costs for the colder months! Some parts of this initial system worked there with 3 LNB's! However, the satellites signals was always subject to reception problems due to weather when the weather was fine everything worked beautifully, when it did not some stations did not give a reliable signal. Here in the Costs the weather is more predictable but I have no idea what satellites optimally my 16 LMB's should point at? I did purchase the additional support arms for a full complement of 16 LNB's supported on the Toroidal 90cm Satellites Antenna, but my worry now is if I have a large enough dish here and if there is a larger Toroidal Satellites Antenna available and from whom?
Thanks again!
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
35,640
Reaction score
8,590
Points
113
Age
59
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
Many receivers will allow two CAMs to work side by side. The issue is the providers/broadcasters these days will not allow their own boxes to work with external CAMs, and their own stbs will not have DisEqC eneabled switching of LNBs. The need for a motorised system then becomes necessary (even then there will need to be a positioning system outside the proprietry receiver(s).

The roof of the property shuld allow the correct sound proofing for a better quality system than the one already fitted. I am surpised the installer has not offered a refund since they are already in default of the completion, based on the original specification provided. Three satellites out of fifteen really isn't cricket.

You look remarkably like Kim Wilde by the way.
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
Many receivers will allow two CAMs to work side by side. The issue is the providers/broadcasters these days will not allow their own boxes to work with external CAMs, and their own stbs will not have DisEqC eneabled switching of LNBs. The need for a motorised system then becomes necessary (even then there will need to be a positioning system outside the proprietry receiver(s).

The roof of the property shuld allow the correct sound proofing for a better quality system than the one already fitted. I am surpised the installer has not offered a refund since they are already in default of the completion, based on the original specification provided. Three satellites out of fifteen really isn't cricket.

You look remarkably like Kim Wilde by the way.

Hello Channel Hopper,

I am new to Satelite technologies but I am reading a lot about this technologies now as I have friends around here who have not a single clue! They paid, like me, hundreds of Euros for sophisticated systems and cannot even get 50 channels? The sad matter is that most of the Satelite installers here are "Cowboys" from the UK, they have a VAN, LADDERS, TOOLS and FEILD STRENGTH METER and a business card and no fixed place of business! I was introduced to this guy as a recommendation of one of my neighbours who has a similar (I've since learned non functioning system) which the installer is supposed to return to correct after sourcing added parts! I have not seen that guy since the 7 November 2014, I have since found a more reputable Spanish installer in Gerona, my problem is he speaks not a single word of English and has never installed a multi LNB Toroidal Satellites Antenna!!

The roof has a concave atrium at its center behind the top of the roof, therefore it acts like a megaphone when any sound occurs from the roof. There is a huge retirement community in this gated community of villas from Switzerland, Germany and the United Kingdom they complain about just about everything! However, the motor noise level tremendously loud around here from cheaply made mortised dishes so they have something to complain about and our last system could be heard inside the house every time we changed the channel!

All my producers say I look like Kim Wilde who is a pop star and I am a mature content star. That said, I earn more due to that resemblance than I care to mention and I am faltered that you consider me a younger version. However, I was born in Skyttehölm just outside of Stockholm on December 1, 1977 and Kim Wilde was born 17 years before me somewhere in England on 18 November 1960 we may look similar but I can assure you that I am a younger version of that kind of classes sweedish beauty!

Thank you!
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
Many receivers will allow two CAMs to work side by side. The issue is the providers/broadcasters these days will not allow their own boxes to work with external CAMs, and their own stbs will not have DisEqC enabled switching of LNBs. The need for a motorised system then becomes necessary (even then there will need to be a positioning system outside the proprietary receiver(s).

The roof of the property should allow the correct sound proofing for a better quality system than the one already fitted. I am surprised the installer has not offered a refund since they are already in default of the completion, based on the original specification provided. Three satellites out of fifteen really isn't cricket.

You look remarkably like Kim Wilde by the way.

QUESTION:
You are extremely technical and very knowledgeable so I have a few technical question.

A) I use my Apple iMac Media Server for all "programmed recording" and as my Electronic Program Guide (EPG) because the Gracenote system downloads and collates all satellite programs from any satellite system it detects at the LNB end of the signal path! The Computer bases Elgato EPG provided by Gracenote allows me to select any forecasted program on any satellite and just schedule a recording of that program to watch at a later date!

I have placed the IKEA 48" LED BESTÅ / UPPLEVA TV I brought from Sweden in our guest apartment on my property here. I brought the TV from Sweden with me and though it is a recent TV (3 months old) it has a built in Satelite tuner within its specification there is no EPG!

How do you install a EMG on such system, is there anything that which exists for that? Alternatively, is their a satellite channel frequency one can tune too and see (on screen) all alluvial satellite programming over the EU?

1a) My question is; what do you guys who do not use a proprietary set top box use for a EPG?
1b) Is there a online web site which offers a industry wide EPG which covers programming on all satellites over Europe?
1c) Is there any "downloadable" universal EPG like the one provided by Gracenote for Europe and US systems: http://www.gracenote.com or here http://www.gracenote.com/press/09/01/2011/tvtv/?

Photos are of Gracenote EPG but based on iOS Tablet & iPhone and Mac, not a external TV!eyetv-eyetv-sat-free-features-2.pngeyetv-eyetv-sat-free-features-4.pngeyetv-eyetv-sat-free-features-5.png

Thank you!
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
Have you checked the audio options, on the channels you're receiving, quite a number of premium channels offer a second audio option, which is usually that of the makers, in most cases American.

Hello Mickha,

You are absolutely right on this issue, I have set my defaults at ENGLISH (primary language), ENGLISH (secondary language) and ENGLISH (subtitles language) and the TV always gives me the option of ordinal language in addition to the default! If I select the onscreen option the set will switch the the primary language the program is being broadcasted in or will default to the english default I have pre-selected! It is quite astonishing to see how much US content is cross channelises and rebroadcasted in local translated content! I am trying to avoid as much US content as possible which is of course already offered at Astra 28,2*E in English language therefore I am not watching those programming again on satellite TV in German! I try to avoid the US programs by watching content TV original programming which is my interest out side of Adult Content which is of interest to me as this is my industry and I want to see if royalty payment are consistent with programming in all markets my images are contracted to be broadcasted in Ok!

Thank for your insight!
 

Doc Sarah

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Points
8
Age
47
Location
Costa Brava Spain
My Satellite Setup
1 x Toroidal 90cm Antenna, 4 x Centauri 16 DiSEqC x 16 INVERTO Black Premium LNB - 58" 65'' 16:9 Plasma display BeoVision 12 Bang & Olufsen and BeoSystem 4 which includes 4 x satellite tuner modules (special build).
My Location
Costa Brava Spain
By having the switch / DiSEqC ==> 16 DiSEqC Centauri, 90cm antenna really is like a 70cm antenna to some extent, that switch loses 5dB, so the poor performance of the antenna, which then yields less especially in ends.
From the peninsula, to put 14-16LNB you have to put in the Astra ends 19'2ºE, on the other side to 30º West Hispasat not 100% tune into these positions, since the gain of the antenna will be 45cm .

The solution as I say, really is a T200 (from the mainland) or a motorized antenna.
You want to use the T90, either, but I notice that you will need an antenna but to 28'2º East.

As you have 4 tuners, you could control 4 motorized antennas and losses would be minimal, antennas suitable satellite you want to tune measures.

Feeling it much, as in the garden do not want / can, you'll have to put on the wall of the house (front) than to 28'2ºEste a very large for 28'2ºEste antenna.

As you want to see the TV well, you have a good TV, and you want certain channels, you need a good antenna and feeling it much, you have no worth (so to speak).
The installer will install what you asked.

Personally, instead of asking after, ask before you start the installation, few solution already has the problem.
-----------------------
Tienes una T90 (110cm que rinde como una mala antena de 90cm en costa Brava).
De entrada para lo que quieres es poca antena, necesitarias una T200.
Conclusion es pequeña la antena que tienes para lo que quieres, necesitarias alguna antena fija aparte de la T90 para algunas posiciones.

Al tener el conmutador/DiSEqC ==> Centauri 16 DiSEqC, la antena de 90cm realmente es como una antena de 70cm por dar alguna medida, ese conmutador pierde 5dB, por eso el bajo rendimiento de la antenas, que luego rinde menos sobre todo en los extremos.
Desde la peninsula, para poder poner 14-16LNB tienes que poner en los extremos Astra a 119'2ºEste a Hispasat a 30ºOeste y no sintonizaras al 100% estas posiciones, ya que la ganancia de la antena sera de 45cm.

La solucion como digo, en serio es una T200 (desde la peninsula) o una antena motorizada.
Que quieres usar la T90, bien, pero ya aviso que necesitaras una antena mas para 28'2ºEste.

Como tienes 4 sintonizadores, podrias controlar 4 antenas motorizadas y las perdidas serian minimas, las antenas de las medidas adecuadas al satelite que quieres sintonizar.

Sintiendolo mucho, como en el jardin no quieres/puedes, tendras que poner en la pared de la casa (fachada) que de a 28'2ºEste una antena muy grande para 28'2ºEste.

Como quieres ver la TV bien, tienes una buena TV, como quieres ciertos canales, necesitas una buena antena y sintiendolo mucho, lo que tienes no vale (es un decir).
El instalador instalo lo que pediste.

Personalmente, en lugar de preguntar despues, preguntaria antes de empezar la instalacion, pocas solucion tiene ya el problema.

Test de calidad (instalador=190cm, antena 180cm)
PIC_0007.jpg

Antena%2B1%2C60%2Bmoraleja.JPG


As you indicate LNB 4 outputs, 4 DiSEqC, you feed 4 teams or all 4 for TV tuners.?
There is little doubt that I have.
-------------------
Como indicas LNB de 4 salidas, 4 DiSEqC, alimentas a 4 equipos o todo para la TV de 4 sintonizadores.?
Es una pequeña duda que tengo.

Buy 2xT90 years a la regale a friend, the other when the weather improves I plan to ride (this year fail), bothers the dish at home.
------------
Compre hace años 2xT90, una la regale a un amigo, la otra cuando mejore el tiempo tengo pensado montar (de este año no pasa), molesta mucho el plato por casa.

ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION:
"As you indicate LNB 4 outputs, 4 DiSEqC, you feed 4 teams or all 4 for TV tuners.?
There is little doubt that I have
."

Each DiSEqC feeds a single independent tuner!
 
Top