..and so it begins ..

[Vipersan]

There's also a Triax Soarsat LNB Triax TKT 001 with 40mm neck.

Yes ..I had heard that ..but not seen one yet..
I take it as read ..it covers exactly what the Inverto one does..so same LO and range etc
rgds
VS

 

[moonbase]

....So ..if you want a cheap way into ka (low and mid band circular or linear) ..then import an SL3 & SUP-2400 (there is a mod to get the 2400 on permantly)..they are cheap enough ..and set about testing your destruction and re-construction skills.
Everything you need is in this thread.
rgds
VS

VS,

Many thx for your contribution in this thread and the other long Ka-Band thread. Its a good read, a bit technical in parts but I hope I have got a grasp of the general logic?

Re your comment above re a cheap way into Ka-Band, do you have any links to the SL3 and SUP-2400 so that I can consider importing them. Also, they are constantly referred to by these abbreviated names, what are the full names for these two pieces of kit, I just cannot seem to find the full details in the two topics?

Finally, would you know if there were any remaining stocks of the Norsat LNB's that you imported from Canada via the UK office of Norsat?

Regards

 

[Vipersan]

Hi Moonbase ..
Have PMd you Stans contact info ..regarding the Norsat lnbs..

These are around £100 each and don't come supplied with suitable feeds ..
You will have to improvise ..
The SL3 is this type ..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIRECTV-S...418?pt=US_Antennas_Dishes&hash=item20db3a504a


Important that you get the right one ..
Legacy white label ..NOT SWiM technology ..

The band convertor is as mentioned SUP-2400 ..and you WILL need this ..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIRECTV-S...aultDomain_0&hash=item58a36e6b20#ht_343wt_892

I recommend getting 2 at least ..cos you have to hard wire one on permanently..in order to use with any receiver ..
The TBS card with crazyscan can switch this on and off with the Hex commands however.

The example ebay links are not neccessarily the cheapest ..
Use the examples to shop around ..
And yes ..you will have to modify them too ..so some technical ability is required ..
Have fun ..
VS

the Norsat 9000AF is linear single polarity and covers Ka band A
Norsats 9000BF CF and DF cover the other bands ..also linear single polarity DRO ...
Llew and myself use XMW PLL lnbs which are VERY expensive to cover Ka band D

The SL3 will cover Ka bands A and B ..but these are dedicated Circular polarity (dual polarity) ..hence the need to mod and tricky to mount.

 

[moonbase]

VS,

Thank you for the links and the PM, I have emailed Norsat asking about availability of LNB's.

So, for band A and band B coverage it is a case of modding the SL3 with a reliance on a certain level of practical skills and ingenuity. Or, trying to source some rare Norsat 9000AF and 9000BF LNB's to get the same coverage.

On the point about the modded SL3 being tricky to mount for an effective signal, I assume that this is not the case with the Norsat LNB's with feedhorn, are these a case of mount it and rotate it a bit for maximum signal and thereafter leave it? Or, do these need to be remounted each time the H/V polarity is changed in a scan?

At the moment, I am just trying to see what my options are to lessen the degree of modding and get maximum band coverage. The modding route does have the advantage of being a lot more economical but my skills in modding are suspect even though there are some excellent pictures and discussion available to assist.

Going back to the modding of the SL3 for a final question, I noticed that you had tried a variety of feedhorns with the SL3 including a feedhorn from a Saorsat LNB. From your tests with these homebrew feedhorns on the SL3 was there any that outperformed the others or where they all the same?

Finally, last question for now, how did the Norsat 9000AF and Norsat 9000BF LNBs compare with the modded SL3 with its homebrew feedhorns? Were the Norsat capable of a stronger signal or was it a case of varying with band/polarity/frequency etc?

Rgds
moonbase

 

[moonbase]

Is this LNB useful for Ka Band, it looks like it gets all 4 bands from a single LNB, is it a quad band Ka-Band LNB ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ka-Band-P...ellite_LNB_Downconverters&hash=item20e1c127c6

Rgds

 

[Captain Jack]

Interesting LNB. Looks like it's voltage switched between bands but what polarity?

 

[Vipersan]

Hi Moonbase ..
that is a very interesting find ..but can't see it being multiband ..though I'd love to be proved wrong ..
Presumably still single linear polarity ..and has to be physically rotated ..

Looks to be similar to the very expensive R9215HDF ...made by XMW ..
It has me confused as well so have contacted the vendor with these questions ..and awaiting a reply ..
rgds
VS
>>>

Im curious and very interested in the LNB you are selling but the info you provided doesn't make it clear as to what is actually covered frequency wise.
As we know Ka band is divided into 4 seperate bands designated A B C and D
I already own an XMW R9215HDF which covers the high ka band D ..
Are you selling 4 seperate lnbs to cover A B C & D ..or is this some new adaption ..ie a multiband lnb somehow switchable between bands ?
presumably still single linear polarity..?
If so that is some breakthrough ..and what is the switching method ?
regards
Evan

 

[Vipersan]

As I thought ...
Not a multiband lnb ..but still good value compared to the XMW R9215 which was about £700 ..
the reply was speedy ..and here it is..
>>
Hi - Your are correct these units cover only certain frequencies - not all. If you look in the listing you will see the different frequency ranges. So yea it is 4 different units. Let us know if you have any more questions

 

[Vipersan]

VS,

Thank you for the links and the PM, I have emailed Norsat asking about availability of LNB's.

So, for band A and band B coverage it is a case of modding the SL3 with a reliance on a certain level of practical skills and ingenuity. Or, trying to source some rare Norsat 9000AF and 9000BF LNB's to get the same coverage.

On the point about the modded SL3 being tricky to mount for an effective signal, I assume that this is not the case with the Norsat LNB's with feedhorn, are these a case of mount it and rotate it a bit for maximum signal and thereafter leave it? Or, do these need to be remounted each time the H/V polarity is changed in a scan?

At the moment, I am just trying to see what my options are to lessen the degree of modding and get maximum band coverage. The modding route does have the advantage of being a lot more economical but my skills in modding are suspect even though there are some excellent pictures and discussion available to assist.

Going back to the modding of the SL3 for a final question, I noticed that you had tried a variety of feedhorns with the SL3 including a feedhorn from a Saorsat LNB. From your tests with these homebrew feedhorns on the SL3 was there any that outperformed the others or where they all the same?

Finally, last question for now, how did the Norsat 9000AF and Norsat 9000BF LNBs compare with the modded SL3 with its homebrew feedhorns? Were the Norsat capable of a stronger signal or was it a case of varying with band/polarity/frequency etc?

Rgds
moonbase

Hi Moonbase ...
Yes you would need 2 Norsat 9000 lnbs to cover bands A & B ..
1x 9000AF and 1x 9000BF ..and these would have to be physically rotated at the dish focus to get H or V polarised signals ...whereas the modded SL3 can do both bands and both polarities without physical intevention ..
The SL3 is a DRO device like the Norsats ..and comparable gain wise though obviously a dedicated linear lnb would always have the edge...though not as versatile...
PLL is ALWAYS preferable over DRO at these much higher frequencies ..but the SL3 is a worthy trade off ..
rgds
VS

 

[moonbase]

Going back to the modding of the SL3 for a final question, I noticed that you had tried a variety of feedhorns with the SL3 including a feedhorn from a Saorsat LNB. From your tests with these homebrew feedhorns on the SL3 was there any that outperformed the others or where they all the same?

Hi VS,

Thank you for the replies so far, would you please be able to assist with the point above? If I am to walk the tricky route of modding it would be useful to know about the homebrew feedhorns for the modded SL3.

Returning to the LNB I found on eBay that you enquired about, from my limited knowledge it seems to be similar to the XMW 9215 that you purchased and if the model on eBay was one that covered band D then it might be identical? Looking more closely at the eBay listing it seems like either the manufacturers label has been removed from the top surface or the picture gas been edited to block out the manufacturers label. Also, the seller has 5 of these LNB's available, if anyone was interested in purchasing one there might be the option to negotiate a discounted price and save on shipping from the USA? The seller has listed the LNB as "Make an Offer" so is of the mind to negotiate.

With the LNB I found on eBay, if it is indeed similar to the XMW 9215 you imported from Korea, would it require rotation at the LNB mount on the dish each time the polarity needed to be changed for a scan? Also, do the XMW 9215 and the Norsat 9000 LNB's require the SUP-2400 unit to be in line

Rgds

 

[Vipersan]

Hi VS,

Thank you for the replies so far, would you please be able to assist with the point above? If I am to walk the tricky route of modding it would be useful to know about the homebrew feedhorns for the modded SL3.

Returning to the LNB I found on eBay that you enquired about, from my limited knowledge it seems to be similar to the XMW 9215 that you purchased and if the model on eBay was one that covered band D then it might be identical? Looking more closely at the eBay listing it seems like either the manufacturers label has been removed from the top surface or the picture gas been edited to block out the manufacturers label. Also, the seller has 5 of these LNB's available, if anyone was interested in purchasing one there might be the option to negotiate a discounted price and save on shipping from the USA? The seller has listed the LNB as "Make an Offer" so is of the mind to negotiate.

With the LNB I found on eBay, if it is indeed similar to the XMW 9215 you imported from Korea, would it require rotation at the LNB mount on the dish each time the polarity needed to be changed for a scan? Also, do the XMW 9215 and the Norsat 9000 LNB's require the SUP-2400 unit to be in line

Rgds

In short ..yes ..
The best feed horns so far are ..
The one grafted from the Hughes ka 2 way lnb ..not generally available in the UK ..and never sold seperately from the ODU module..
The one constructed by myself in copper to emulate the inverto twin saorsat feed..
The one cut and fashioned from the inverto Saorsat itself ..
These feeds are the best I've found so far ..
The linear FD feed bought from S Korea at the same time as the XMW Ka band D PLL lnb is ok ..but falls short of the 3 above ..(FD9000)
Modified Ku feeds were also tried and do perform but are adequate at best..

No to the SUP-2400 being in line for either the XMW ..the Norsats ..nor indeed the lnbs you found ..the equivalent being the lower of the list of 4.....ie you'd need to specify these parameters if you order one ...this is Ka band D. (21.2 > 22.2)
(The SUP-2400 is SL3 specific)...
Finally both the Norsats and the XMW ..and of course the lnb you discovered would have to be physically rotated at the dish focus for H or V ..
As yet there are NO known Vertical broadcasts in Ka D ...but there are H and V in Ka band A
hope this helps..

 

[moonbase]

...both the Norsats and the XMW ..and of course the lnb you discovered would have to be physically rotated at the dish focus for H or V ..

VS,

Thank you for the reply, very informative and useful.

On the point of the Norsat/XMW/eBay LNB requiring physical rotation at the dish focus, do you think this could be achieved by a co-rotor? I think that some of the C-Band dish setups use a co-rotor to alter the alignment of the LNB at its mounting point? In fact, I think I sold one of these to forum member "aceb" a couple of years ago along with a Precision 1.8m prime focus dish. I am just wondering if one of these could be creatively adapted to physically rotate the LNB?

Please forgive such a "Ka-Band newbie" question but is there any technical reason why an old fashioned magnetic polariser would not work instead of physically rotating the LNB? For example a magnetic polariser from the days of quad band analogue LNB's where a receiver such as an EchoStar SR5500 or EchoStar LT8700 could power the magnetic polariser? Or is the waveguide internal diameter not the same or is it just a plain non starter due to technical specifications with Ka-Band?


Rgds

 

[Llew]

Those magnetic polarisers have the wrong waveguide spec moonbase, invariably WR-75. No good for Ka work - never seen a WR-51 polariser, but maybe they exist for professional use.

 

[Vipersan]

VS,

Thank you for the reply, very informative and useful.

On the point of the Norsat/XMW/eBay LNB requiring physical rotation at the dish focus, do you think this could be achieved by a co-rotor? I think that some of the C-Band dish setups use a co-rotor to alter the alignment of the LNB at its mounting point? In fact, I think I sold one of these to forum member "aceb" a couple of years ago along with a Precision 1.8m prime focus dish. I am just wondering if one of these could be creatively adapted to physically rotate the LNB?

Please forgive such a "Ka-Band newbie" question but is there any technical reason why an old fashioned magnetic polariser would not work instead of physically rotating the LNB? For example a magnetic polariser from the days of quad band analogue LNB's where a receiver such as an EchoStar SR5500 or EchoStar LT8700 could power the magnetic polariser? Or is the waveguide internal diameter not the same or is it just a plain non starter due to technical specifications with Ka-Band?


Rgds

With some judicious modding you _may_ be able to use a C120 ferrite magnetic polariser from an old Ku system ..
These were just for skew adjustment of course ..so you would be using at extreme twist of the incoming signal..
This _may_ be of use in in Ka band A ...but there WILL be significant losses ..and as you will find if you enter the world of Ka ...'every 0.5 db counts'
A big mechanical Corotor type polariser is a definate NoNo imo..
as Llew has already pointed out..
rgds
VS

 

[Channel Hopper]

A magnetic polariser would not be suitable for Ka band, those that were around when they were first introduced will remember that the amount of skew was dependent on both the voltage fed into them, and the frequency of the received signal. Whilst reasonably linear at low Ku frequencies (11 - 12GHz), at the Telecom band they were almost useless.

 

[Vipersan]

A magnetic polariser would not be suitable for Ka band, those that were around when they were first introduced will remember that the amount of skew was dependent on both the voltage fed into them, and the frequency of the received signal. Whilst reasonably linear at low Ku frequencies (11 - 12GHz), at the Telecom band they were almost useless.

Thanks for clarifying CH..
I guess we wait for voltage switched dual polarity PLLs then ...if ever ...
lol

 

[Channel Hopper]

I'm almost certain somebody somewhere, will have a Ka band othomode in their arsenal

edit

http://www.gdsatcom.com/rfproducts_Ka-band.php

 

[Vipersan]

I'm almost certain somebody somewhere, will have a Ka band othomode in their arsenal

edit

http://www.gdsatcom.com/rfproducts_Ka-band.php

Strictly speaking ..I have one CH ...courtesy of the Hughesnet Ka band B lnb I purchased from the US ..
It also has facility to integrate and filter the uplink frequency ..

Of course ..this would require a second rather expensive PLL ..but I guess it could be used for Ka band D ...errr ..maybe ?
I guess the issues would be ..
How wide band is it ?...and how difficult would it be to physically attach 2 lnbs in such close proximity ..
Spacing would be a problem unless a right angled waveguide for one of the Lnbs could be constructed ..
rgds
VS

 

[Llew]

I'm almost certain somebody somewhere, will have a Ka band othomode in their arsenal

edit

http://www.gdsatcom.com/rfproducts_Ka-band.php

No good for us. Only takes WR-28 (26-40 GHz) as the opposing polarity LNB.

 

[Vipersan]

No good for us. Only takes WR-28 (26-40 GHz) as the opposing polarity LNB.

..Are you referring to my orthomode Llew ??
It has both H & V outs suitable for our use ...but the uplink port as you say is much higher frequency ...
It's just a pity that the Ka band H/V outs are so close together making mounting 2 lnbs difficult ..unless they are long and thin like the Norsats ...and ideally a little thinner.
rgds
VS