Astra 1N chat - January 2012

[pipino]

I have a holiday home in Moraira and get my TDT from Cumbre del Sol, Benitachell.

Are you saying that a satellite dish pointed towards Cumbre del Sol could be jammed at these frequencies?

If so how many degrees would the dish need to be move so there wouldn’t be a problem?

Terry

hi ,i dont know about benitachell , my case is from benimeli transmiter and indeed freq:10.803 get jammed because of RTVV terrestrial link , if you have a spectrum analizer and point a dish towards benitechell i´m sure you will get that RTVV mux ..i´m getting it on 10803 SR 16500

 

[Bob Meade]

As a new member you cant at the moment. This is because we had a spate of spammers misusing the pm system a while back.

Dont be offended - its purely a security measure to protect our members.

What do you expect living in the bleakest part of God's own country mate! - I can just about throw a stone through the window of my local exchange, but I do get the BT standard of 8MB just about - when it is working - it is nice on the Bronte moors area though.
Bob

 

[C0re]

Your internet speeds over there is the same both ways isnt it? I.E. you pay €25 a month (just a guess) and get 25Mbps download and 25Mbps upload too? (just a wild example lol)

Last time I was over there we stayed in the Qbic Hotel in South Amsterdam right outside Amsterdam Zuid rail station and they offered free wifi and their upload speed was 2.59Mbps yet the download speed was only 1.9Mbps lolol I was ammazed haha

I was however told that your government, hats off to them, subsidise the internet heavily so that it is cheaper for the end user and also one of the best/fastest in the EU

I don't think the government subsidise the Internet here. WiFi, especially in hotels, is often limited. Further away from the router the speed can decrease a lot. That's why my main pc is connected to the router by wire.

The upload speeds depends on the provider and the subscription, it's often lower than the download speed. I have a subscription offering 25 Mbps download and just 1.5 Mbps upload. For me the upload isn't important at all and 1.5 Mbps is enough.

 

[welshman234]

welshman234, didn't know how to message you directly. I live not a million miles away in Montabaur (the yellow castle on the ICE line to Koeln). I need to get my self set up with UK TV. Unfortunately i also live in a listed building so my installation will need to be well disguised on the balcony, probably a clear dish. IPTV isn't really an option here either with 3MB broadband in the sticks. I just wanted to ask about the technicals of your installation and the success you are getting with the change over to 1N. Hope you don't mind the question, but as you live just down the road so to speak i thought you might be able to impart some advice before i get stuck in thanks M

The first thing you will need to do is speak to your landlord if you rent or you may have to speak to the local town council if its a listed building to try and achieve permission (Baugenehmigung) Dont just erect the dish without checking first as the Germans are very hot on building permission and dont underestimate how nosey some Germans can be. I got reported to the local Ordnungsamt(environmental health and traffic controls) for not sweeping the street outside my house of leaves in the Autumn for 1 week when I wasnt here and got a little warning in the post . On the positive side the German Constitution is clear that foreigners have every right to receive broadcasts in their own language. There was even a case of a german who was told he couldnt have satellite tv in his flat yet neighbouring flats with foreign residents were allowed to erect satelllite dishes by the landlord!!!!! Some landlords argue, to get round this, that there are plenty of english speaking channels on normal German television. Dont be fobbed off by that just tell them you are learning Welsh or Gaellic and need to have S4C and BBC Alba .The last thing Germans like is to be accused of is racism and the denial of others cultural rghts.

On the equipment side there are plenty of transparent dishes on the market. Just google. In Montabaur I believe an 80 -85cm dish would more than serve you well, at the moment. I say at the moment because 1N is just a visitor at the satellite position for the UK at the end of this year we get Astra 2F and god knows if this will be receivable In germany. I am assuming that I will need at least a 1.2 m dish but I really dont tknow what the future is. Any generic hd receiver will get Uk tv I use a VU+ and I like it. Astra 1n has improved my signal quality on all the previous 2D channels eg before BBC 1 Wales was about 55-60% quality but now its near 80% . Hope it helps...

 

[Satellite74]

The first thing you will need to do is speak to your landlord if you rent or you may have to speak to the local town council if its a listed building to try and achieve permission (Baugenehmigung) Dont just erect the dish without checking first as the Germans are very hot on building permission and dont underestimate how nosey some Germans can be.

hm... really, a building permission? I think that generally only applies when you subject your building to structural changes (i.e. an extension in your backyard, a loft conversion, or a garage/carport). It is worth checking with the Denkmalschutzbehörde (historic buildings authority) though, they are generally the ones who have final say when you want to make alterations to a listed building's appearance.

On the equipment side there are plenty of transparent dishes on the market. Just google.

One alternative might be mounting the dish "lying down" on your balcony. It makes a standard aluminium/steel dish almost completely invisible.

You just have to work out a bit of geometry to make that work. It basically makes no difference if your dish is near-vertical, as most offset satellite dishes, or near-horizontal, with the LNB mount pointing up in the air. You just have to get the geometry right, meaning align it so that the satellite signal hits the focal point of your satellite dish at the proper angle and then bounces off onto the LNB.

I just tried to work that bit out myself and made a little sketch, because that might be a necessity for me too as soon as I have found a new flat (I am currently kind of in the process of moving):




I hope this is correct. Theoretically, what you need to know is the satellite's elevation above the horizon (around 30° for Astra 1N for most of Germany; the further north, the smaller that elevation) and the offset angle of your dish. To align the dish properly, you need to tilt it out of the horizontal position according to the equation in the sketch...

 

[welshman234]

hm... really, a building permission? I think that generally only applies when you subject your building to structural changes (i.e. an extension in your backyard, a loft conversion, or a garage/carport). It is worth checking with the Denkmalschutzbehörde (historic buildings authority) though, they are generally the ones who have final say when you want to make alterations to a listed building's appearance.



One alternative might be mounting the dish "lying down" on your balcony. It makes a standard aluminium/steel dish almost completely invisible.

You just have to work out a bit of geometry to make that work. It basically makes no difference if your dish is near-vertical, as most offset satellite dishes, or near-horizontal, with the LNB mount pointing up in the air. You just have to get the geometry right, meaning align it so that the satellite signal hits the focal point of your satellite dish at the proper angle and then bounces off onto the LNB.

I just tried to work that bit out myself and made a little sketch, because that might be a necessity for me too as soon as I have found a new flat (I am currently kind of in the process of moving):

View attachment 41318


I hope this is correct. Theoretically, what you need to know is the satellite's elevation above the horizon (around 30° for Astra 1N for most of Germany; the further north, the smaller that elevation) and the offset angle of your dish. To align the dish properly, you need to tilt it out of the horizontal position according to the equation in the sketch...

If he starts say drilling holes in a listed building and putting a satellite bracket on the wall he had better be pretty sure he can before he starts. I think the local council must be a good starting point as they can give him specific details on permission. If there are other satellite dishes already erected by other tenants or residents then I would probably say go ahead. If landlord or neighbouring flats play funny buggers use the racism card and the denial of cultural rights as advised above in my other post. Like your advice on the dish layout...very good.

 

[Satellite74]

If he starts say drilling holes in a listed building and putting a satellite bracket on the wall he had better be pretty sure he can before he starts.

definitely true. And you always run the risk of having to deal with a council bureaucrat who will make it their personal business to try and suck the fun out of it completely for you. Not to get into too much detail, but a friend's landlord once wanted to repaint the front of the house (19th century Gründerzeit building with elaborate stucco ornaments), and he thought he'd add a splash of colour and paint it in a kind of pale blue... he was denied permission and told to do it in a colour more similar to the old historic light grey...

If there are other satellite dishes already erected by other tenants or residents then I would probably say go ahead. If landlord or neighbouring flats play funny buggers use the racism card and the denial of cultural rights as advised above in my other post.

I would probably try that too... nobody wants to be called a xenophobe these days... however, it's a tricky business, because as a foreigner Article 5 of the German Constitution (the right to freedom of information) applies to you too, and numerous court decisions have clarified that a landlord cannot categorically keep a foreigner from receiving their home country's television channels... but a compromise needs to be found if the landlord or other tenants/flat owners take offence at a very visible dish. In one recent case, the court ruled that as a compromise, the foreign tenant was allowed to mount a dish on the roof of the building at their own expense.

The path of least resistance, however, would probably indeed be a clear transparent dish... or mounting the dish horizontally, like I suggested above... I think I've even seen special satellite dish stands somewhere for horizontal operation...

 

[welshman234]

definitely true. And you always run the risk of having to deal with a council bureaucrat who will make it their personal business to try and suck the fun out of it completely for you. Not to get into too much detail, but a friend's landlord once wanted to repaint the front of the house (19th century Gründerzeit building with elaborate stucco ornaments), and he thought he'd add a splash of colour and paint it in a kind of pale blue... he was denied permission and told to do it in a colour more similar to the old historic light grey...



I would probably try that too... nobody wants to be called a xenophobe these days... however, it's a tricky business, because as a foreigner Article 5 of the German Constitution (the right to freedom of information) applies to you too, and numerous court decisions have clarified that a landlord cannot categorically keep a foreigner from receiving their home country's television channels... but a compromise needs to be found if the landlord or other tenants/flat owners take offence at a very visible dish. In one recent case, the court ruled that as a compromise, the foreign tenant was allowed to mount a dish on the roof of the building at their own expense.

The path of least resistance, however, would probably indeed be a clear transparent dish... or mounting the dish horizontally, like I suggested above... I think I've even seen special satellite dish stands somewhere for horizontal operation...

I think that painting the dish the same colour as the building is also possible as long as the paint has no metallic content. Agree that there should always be sensible solutions to dish erection. Even if it means a dish on the roof!!!!!! I always think that looks worse but there you go ... One thing the original poster needs to think about though -is it worth buying said dish now or waiting until 2F is up and running??? I dont know the answer there...

 

[FRINGE]

Early season Solar Outage to blame for that. Expect the same tomorrow and to a lesser extent throughout the rest of the week.

Would that explain a similar temporary lose of signal here in Tenerife ? Only just started to notice this over the last few days and it occurs at about 09:55, only to be restored again in about 5 or 10 minutes.

Slovenia 11:08/11:28 - Tenerife 09:55/10:05. Same event ? .....Hmmmmmm.

 

[Analoguesat]

Outage tool calculator for the SES birds here:

-https://skyline.ses-worldskies.com/Tools/Enterprise%20Portal/NSS_SunOutageTool.aspx?WCMP=new

 

[FRINGE]

Outage tool calculator for the SES birds here:

-https://skyline.ses-worldskies.com/Tools/Enterprise%20Portal/NSS_SunOutageTool.aspx?WCMP=new

Thanks for the link . Outage calculator confirmed the loss of signal.

 

[M60]

Thanks for the link . Outage calculator confirmed the loss of signal.

We should be well out of the early season solar outage period now so you shouldn't be seeing any loss of signal today caused by this. Next solar outages will be around the 15th October when the sun slides again through the clarke belt.

 

[FRINGE]

We should be well out of the early season solar outage period now so you shouldn't be seeing any loss of signal today caused by this. Next solar outages will be around the 15th October when the sun slides again through the clarke belt.

Outage tool gave me this result:

 

[Analoguesat]

You have the transmission type set as C-band which will give spurious results.

Ku gives 7-10th only

 

[M60]

Outage tool gave me this result:


View attachment 41393

Sorry, thought you were in the UK, didn't notice your location. Being lower latitude you'll experience sunouts later than us in the UK.

 

[FRINGE]

Sorry, thought you were in the UK, didn't notice your location. Being lower latitude you'll experience sunouts later than us in the UK.

That's OK. Must now do some more research on the net re Solar Outage. I'm no expert when it comes to the technical issues regarding satellite functionality/performance so a little light reading for bedtime seems to be in order .

 

[Bjarne Nilsson]

Maybe a bit OT but anyway: Am I the onlo one here thet hopes astra 2e+2f will be destroyed before they reach orbit? I assume that any delay in getting replacement sats will force astra to let us keep IN(with its not-so-nerrow) narrow beam until the can build and launch new replacements.
And I guess I'm not the only one here that really likes IN for the strong signals, and don't like the thought of a narrower replacement.

PS: I harbor no ill will against astra if there where any other way that 2w+2f cold be seriously delayed without being destroyed I wold prefer that

 

[Analoguesat]

Yes your the only one.

Even if SES lost one of the 2E / 2F / 2G birds theres still enough capacity on the two surviving craft to take over - Im pretty sure part of the replacement strategy was two birds could take over from three if required - something I read a long time ago..

Now no more talk of destruction of any of the new craft if you please.

 

[Bjarne Nilsson]

Ok, that's to bad.
Got the message, no more talk of destruction.
BTW: Is there any way we can hope to keep 1N (et at least the old old coverage)? I dont't want to loose BBC up here in Norway

 

[M60]

Ok, that's to bad.
Got the message, no more talk of destruction.
BTW: Is there any way we can hope to keep 1N (et at least the old old coverage)? I dont't want to loose BBC up here in Norway

No I'm afraid there isn't, it's destined for 19.2E. We don't yet know how tight the new 2E/F/G spotbeams will be but estimates say they'll be pretty tight indeed, most likely much tighter than 2D was which will upset a lot of expats.