astra 2f become launch arianespace v209

[Satellite74]

ok so what we can gather from SES's sparse but up to date news is that the new UK spot beam off Astra's 2F satellite will be here later this year.

It appears that both the European wide beam and the UK spot beam will be centered on the British Isles;

will that mean that there will be no frequency reuse between the two beams? After all, if you point two beams practically in the same direction, you would get cross-interference where it is not desired, right?

 

[C0re]

will that mean that there will be no frequency reuse between the two beams? After all, if you point two beams practically in the same direction, you would get cross-interference where it is not desired, right?

That's right. Re-using the same frequency can only be done when the beams are far enough apart. Like the UK spotbeam and the Middle Eastern or African spotbeams.

 

[Satellite74]

That's right. Re-using the same frequency can only be done when the beams are far enough apart. Like the UK spotbeam and the Middle Eastern or African spotbeams.

well that's at least something then... it means that the only thing we will really have to worry about will be if the spot beam's fringes will be wide enough for us, wherever outside the UK we are...

...well, that is, pending some other European beam at 28°E off a different satellite which could cancel out the 2F UK beam's transponder frequencies on the European mainland... any thoughts on whether or not that might happen in the foreseeable future?

 

[timo_w2s]

well that's at least something then... it means that the only thing we will really have to worry about will be if the spot beam's fringes will be wide enough for us, wherever outside the UK we are...

...well, that is, pending some other European beam at 28°E off a different satellite which could cancel out the 2F UK beam's transponder frequencies on the European mainland... any thoughts on whether or not that might happen in the foreseeable future?

As far as I am aware there has been no suggestion that there will be frequency reuse within Europe at 28°E for the foreseeable future. However, there is a very real possibility that the Middle East beams on Astra 2E would most likely interfere with reception of UK/Euro beams for people in the south east of Europe (eg Cyprus, Greece) if they use the same frequencies and perhaps that is why the European beams are biased towards western Europe. Having said that I don't know if the Middle East beams will transmit on the same frequencies or if the satellite is still going to be used at 28°E for long (the SES website says Astra 2E is to be relocated - although this might be an error).

 

[welshman234]

As far as I am aware there has been no suggestion that there will be frequency reuse within Europe at 28°E for the foreseeable future. However, there is a very real possibility that the Middle East beams on Astra 2E would most likely interfere with reception of UK/Euro beams for people in the south east of Europe (eg Cyprus, Greece) if they use the same frequencies and perhaps that is why the European beams are biased towards western Europe. Having said that I don't know if the Middle East beams will transmit on the same frequencies or if the satellite is still going to be used at 28°E for long (the SES website says Astra 2E is to be relocated - although this might be an error).

I think that frequency reuse between say France Spain Germany and the UK at 28° is very unlikely. I think Huevos once said something about there needing to be some safe degree of separation between the signals unless there runs the risk of people in the SE England ending up with French tv ie in Jersey. KA band could achieve this but maybe in 20 years as this latest batch of sats is operating on KU.......... I am not worrying about this possibility for now....Just intrigued now if I will get the spotbeam North of Frankfurt...

 

[Analoguesat]

As far as I am aware there has been no suggestion that there will be frequency reuse within Europe at 28°E for the foreseeable future. However, there is a very real possibility that the Middle East beams on Astra 2E would most likely interfere with reception of UK/Euro beams for people in the south east of Europe (eg Cyprus, Greece) if they use the same frequencies and perhaps that is why the European beams are biased towards western Europe. Having said that I don't know if the Middle East beams will transmit on the same frequencies or if the satellite is still going to be used at 28°E for long (the SES website says Astra 2E is to be relocated - although this might be an error).

I suspect we can already predict which frequencies the Middle East beam will use - the current "Astra 2D" frequencies used by the UK's PSB channels. They cant use the Eutel 28A frequencies as 28A covers well out toward the Middle East

 

[BLUEPLATINUM]

I suspect we can already predict which frequencies the Middle East beam will use - the current "Astra 2D" frequencies used by the UK's PSB channels. They cant use the Eutel 28A frequencies as 28A covers well out toward the Middle East

So when the current PSB channels on 1N move to 2F it will be a period of dual illumination not a frequency swap over like when 1N went live replacing 2D?

 

[M60]

So when the current PSB channels on 1N move to 2F it will be a period of dual illumination not a frequency swap over like when 1N went live replacing 2D?

They'll just shut down the 1N transponder and bring up the existing uplink carrier on the new satellite with up to an hour or so's outage in the middle of the night. Like the 1N migration the first we'll know is when the change has happened for some services or in the BBC's case when they've publicised it as they seem more open to discussion in this respect!

 

[timo_w2s]

I think that frequency reuse between say France Spain Germany and the UK at 28° is very unlikely. I think Huevos once said something about there needing to be some safe degree of separation between the signals unless there runs the risk of people in the SE England ending up with French tv ie in Jersey. KA band could achieve this but maybe in 20 years as this latest batch of sats is operating on KU.......... I am not worrying about this possibility for now....Just intrigued now if I will get the spotbeam North of Frankfurt...

Indeed, it's people on the extreme edges of the footprints that need to be more concerned. Germany (certainly the west side) is always going to be close enough to the UK to get something, it'll more be a question of how big...

 

[Huevos]

I think that frequency reuse between say France Spain Germany and the UK at 28° is very unlikely. I think Huevos once said something about there needing to be some safe degree of separation between the signals unless there runs the risk of people in the SE England ending up with French tv ie in Jersey.

Doesn't run that risk. Lets say you need 9dB SNR minimum it means the wanted beam needs to be at least 9dB stronger than the unwanted beam in the whole of the coverage area of each beam.

 

[Dan Dan]

ASTRA 2F west africa beam is NEARER tenerife then ENGLAND ...uk spot beam

so can they or will they reuse frequencies on ASTRA2F for that service

-http://satellite.tmcnet.com/topics/satellite/articles/2012/03/26/280554-samsung-ses-provide-africa-with-first-free-to.htm

london-tenerife 3000km

Senegal-tenerife 1500km

its not to hard to work out


10.714 to 11.126 UK BEAM (2F+2E) WEST AFRICA (2F) ME (2E) REUSABLE FREQ.

11.720 TO 12.480 EURO BEAM (2F+2E)

 

[Satellite74]

so can they or will they reuse frequencies on ASTRA2F for that service

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. They probably can if they want to.

But even if they don't, the bigger problem in the Canaries will be that you will probably be far out of range with the new UK spot beam, especially with its state of the art beam shaping technology that has a steep signal drop-off on the edges.

Remember, the fact that you can pick up Astra 1N at present where you are is more or less just a happy accident... because 1N - and its beam shape - were not designed for permanent service at 28°E to provide a UK spot beam. 1N's "UK" footprint is basically a tilted and skewed pan-European beam that just happens to also hit the Canary Islands.

 

[solly]

i think it ses say the satellite ses 5 on 4.8e
it start two pakege african beam fta
12015v sr 29950 fec 3/4 and 12054v sr-29900 fec 3/4 on tel aviv city with 4.5m no signal

 

[Dan Dan]

OH yes i totally agree with you but say the rebroadcaster put in a 7m dish instead of a 4m dish to get the BBC signal that is weaker on 2F then 1N then they run into the problem of the lasrger the dish the more change of picking up the WA BEAM ......so your between a rock and a hard place...

 

[welshman234]

Doesn't run that risk. Lets say you need 9dB SNR minimum it means the wanted beam needs to be at least 9dB stronger than the unwanted beam in the whole of the coverage area of each beam.

So frequency reuse at 28° between say Germany France Spain and the UK is possible ?

 

[BLUEPLATINUM]

It is very odd. 2F is definitely the first to launch but I suppose it is possible 1N will remain until 2E is launched and lit up at 28.2E.

But in this case, why launch in that order and what will 2F be used for after launch?

 

[solly]

today ses ibc amsterdam show footprint of new market africa busness

 

[solly]

September 7, 2012

The concurrent missions now underway at the Spaceport begin with an Ariane 5 launch to carry the European ASTRA 2F and Indian GSAT-10 geostationary telecommunications satellites, scheduled for September 21. Designated Flight VA209 in Arianespace’s mission numbering system, this will be the 65th flight of an Ariane 5 from French Guiana, and the 209th liftoff of an Ariane-series vehicle. The mission’s launcher is inside the Spaceport’s Ariane 5 Final Assembly Building, undergoing final preparations prior to the integration of its two satellites – which are being readied separately in clean room facilities at the launch site.
GSAT-10 (at left) and ASTRA 2F are completing their checkout process in French Guiana for launch on Arianespace's next Ariane 5 mission – Flight VA209 – scheduled for a September 21 liftoff.

 

[Satellite74]

It is very odd. 2F is definitely the first to launch but I suppose it is possible 1N will remain until 2E is launched and lit up at 28.2E.

But in this case, why launch in that order and what will 2F be used for after launch?

my guess would be that Astra 2D's passing has simply sort of screwed up the whole schedule at SES for years. It wasn't for nothing that 1N took over 2D's duties; this shuffling around of satellites normally shouldn't have happened with a planning time frame of up to ten years which SES normally have for their fleet and replacements. 2D already had signal dropouts and jitters in the weeks before it was switched off, and really was on its last leg. Apparently SES had relied on 2D having a full lifespan of 12 years as projected when it was launched in 2000; and because 2D was threatening to go dark prematurely, they have had to shuffle the satellites around a bit, first assigning 1N to an "interim" mission at 28°E (and turning a shaped pan-European beam into a makeshift UK spotbeam), and now in the coming months moving 1N to 19° where it should have started service almost a year ago, and putting 2F in the 28°E slot to relieve 1N...

on the other hand, what is puzzling me right now is the fact that apparently all three new satellites, 2E, F, and G, seem to have UK spot beams, if you look at the info at Satellite Footprint - Satellite Maps - SES.com ...

But perhaps 2F, while not originally intended to be the first new bird to go up, is really needed now at 28°E to take over from 1N and provide "bread and butter" channel coverage for the UK, i.e. Freesat etc.

 

[M60]

Yep Satellite74 I think your right there and guess SES want 1N to it's intended 19.2E slot ASAP to crack on with it's intended mission at what is their most lucrative orbital slot in Europe. I guess we might see 2F in to service as quickly as possible following testing, I remember Astra 3B was live within 3wks of going up and tested at 31.5E, maybe this time they'll test 2F at the same position so it doesn't need much in terms of movement to get it to 28.2E. Obviously they can't test all the transponders at that position as they already have some in use from Astra 1G.