Dakar Rally 2018

[Tururu]

Version extendida de la foto del otro dia, mal remolcado, fin del Dakar.
Extended version of the photo of the other day, badly towed, end of the Dakar.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Well, we'll probably need about 40m or so to get from the dish to the receiver stack, and it won't be a quick job because it has to go along behind a lot of trellising and then up, along and across the extension, through the wall and then around the "office" wall to the receiver stack (no choice, that's the way it is .). If it helps, I'll get a get another 50m reel of WF100 before you come over.

The cable off the reel is over 40m and is solid core 100. It should be possible to use the old run to pull the new cable through the trellis but it is your property.

How many joins do you think there were/are ?

 

[jeallen01]

If you hold one hand bottom dead centre, with minimal upward pressure, whilst tweaking your nuts with the other hand, then all is well with the TD110.

That depends on several things, notably where the dish is located and how strong you are.

The bottom of the dish is about 2m above the ground (so I can walk under it to get to the end of the garden!) and that means I have to stand on steps to one side of the dish to get to the mounting bolts - and even that's a bit of a stretch.

I'm not exactly that "weak" but my upper-body strength isn't what it was 10-20 yrs ago (I'm 70 now), and I don't have arms like a gorilla. So, whilst I tried to do exactly what you describe, I found it impossible to get something to grip on the nut at one end of a dish-to-mounting bracket bolt whilst tightening the head on the other end with a ratchet spanner or socket & ratchet - effectively you need 3 hands (1-each for the tool on the nut, the tool on the bolt head, and to support the dish arm), but "unfortunately" I have only got two. Looks like it would have helped if I had been born a 3-armed gorilla

 

[jeallen01]

The cable off the reel is over 40m and is solid core 100. It should be possible to use the old run to pull the new cable through the trellis but it is your property.

How many joins do you think there were/are ?

There are probably 6-8 joints.

Using the existing cable to pull a new one through is not really on because, it is part of a nylon-cable secured and wrapped bundle of 5-6 which runs the full length of the garden, and which is tied to the rear of the trellis (that's mine, and which I only totally it replaced in 2016!). The only really practical thing to do is just to thread a new cable alongside the existing cable bundle (luckily all the foliage that climbs the trellis is pretty much dead and gone ATM because it's Winter).

Tough bit will getting it up on top of the acrylic roofing to the "office" - but managed that last time by literally throwing the cable bundle over and across it from the office window!

 

[Channel Hopper]

6-8 joints is not good (unless you are into that sort of thing)

What Music are you Playing Part 14

 

[jeallen01]

6-8 joints is not good (unless you are into that sort of thing)

Yup, I know - but, as I said in the conversation that you started, I suspect that a lot of the actual problem is due to slight declination errors &/or LNB arm misalignment rather than cable/connection losses because the signal levels at the receivers themselves don't appear to be too bad in general (got some stuff that was definitely on Nilesat @ 7W before Xmas).

 

[Channel Hopper]

Signal loss aside (1-2dB per junction), multiple connections will not only impact on specific frequencies, setting up nodes that the receiver tuner will perceive as valid transmissions, affecting blind scans and mask legitimate signals.

I would consider replacing the run as a priority, the dish alignment as your signature shows you are getting the vast majorty of the arc, so just a tweak is required (if at all)

 

[jeallen01]

Signal loss aside (1-2dB per junction), multiple connections will not only impact on specific frequencies, setting up nodes that the receiver tuner will perceive as valid transmissions, affecting blind scans and mask legitimate signals.

I would consider replacing the run as a priority, the dish alignment as your signature shows you are getting the vast majorty of the arc, so just a tweak is required (if at all)

As an ex part-time EMC engineer (and so on!) I'm aware of the joint reflections issues, and the cable run issues are in the conversation. Just posted an "overhead" shot of the property in that conversation.

 

[Tururu]

@Channel Hopper
@jeallen01

Los empalmes siempre tienes las perdidas de las conexiones y no son buenas como comenta CH.
Tienes otro punto negativo y muy importante.
En el LNB doble, tienes puesto previos de linea para compensar que? perdidas de cable.?

Tambien tengo 40 metros de cable en la antena motorizada, el cable es de bajas perdidas (28db/100m) y perfecto.
Recuerda, a la señal le sumas el ruido del previo, normalmente de 4-6db, este nivel hace que de tener un canal que pixela de vez en cuando, desaparece despues de poner el previo.

Quita el previo y prueba.

Conclusion:
Cable nuevo de bajas perdidas (28dB/100m) y sin amplificadores de señal.
--------------
The splices always have the connections lost and are not good as CH comments.
You have another negative and very important point.
In the double LNB, you have put previous line to compensate that? lost cable.?

I also have 40 meters of cable in the motorized antenna, the cable is low loss (28db/100m) and perfect.
Remember, at the signal you add the noise of the previous one, normally of 4-6db, this level makes of having a channel that pixelates from time to time, disappears after putting the previous one.

Remove the preview and test.

Conclusion:
New cable with low losses (28dB/100m) and without signal amplifiers.

 

[jeallen01]

@Tururu
Thanks but I don't quite understand your comment about the twin LNB - I simply removed the cable from the motor to one half of the LNB and moved it to the other half, and so, at the moment, I'm using only one half of that LNB.

Pixelation, as such, wasn't an issue for 11045/H/14400 - I simply wasn't getting ANY signal on that on any of the 3x receivers that I tried, and so there was no picture to pixelate!

Edited: BTW, I've just done another narrow-band scan of 11020 to 11080 with the TM, and got a pretty strong & stable picture from ISAT-TTNO2 on 11040/H/3255 - about 47% Signal Strength/6.4dB showing, although that seems to have gone off-air now. That's very close to 11045/H frequency-wise so I would have thought that if I get one then I should get the other(??) since, at those frequencies any rejection knotches would be quite a few MHz wide.

 

[Tururu]

@jeallen01
What are these boxes?
Previous line? 16-24dB
---
Que son estas cajas.?
Previos de linea? 16-24dB



Comento posibles problemas en la instalacion que tienes.
El lunes tampoco pude sintonizar nada en el tp que buscamos.
Es bueno recordar que los canales comerciales de este satelite tienen mucha potencia si la comparamos con los enlaces tecnicos/feed.
Por eso los comerciales ok y los enlaces tecnicos mal.
-----
I mention possible problems in the installation you have.
On Monday I could not tune anything in the tp we are looking for.
It is good to remember that the commercial channels of this satellite have a lot of power if we compare it with the technical links / feed.
That's why the commercials ok and the technical links bad.

 

[jeallen01]

JE, are you getting the immensely strong Kurdistan HD on 11645 H 4800 ?

I get it booming in on my 80cm and I also have signal on 10962

Just had another look at that channel, and - having tweaked the longitude slightly again (so the off-set from 10E is around 0.5/0.6 deg) - it's coming in quite clearly, although the SR is showing up as 4800.

 

[jeallen01]

@ Tururu

Those "boxes" are line-amps - and, at least last year, they certainly boosted the signals as received in the house - and certainly had more effect there near the LNBs than half-way along the cables to the house.

 

[Tururu]

@ Tururu

Those "boxes" are line-amps - and, at least last year, they certainly boosted the signals as received in the house - and certainly had more effect there near the LNBs than half-way along the cables to the house.

OK.
Line-amps ==> previous line is the same

El ruido que meten en la señal (4-6dB ruido del amplificador de linea) se come los enlaces tecnicos, los canales comerciales al tener mas señal bien.
Comentaste que tienes 40 metros de cable, son los que tengo tambien en la antena de 90cm que utilizo (40m).
Con cable de bajas perdidas no importa, si el cable es malo, se come la señal, espero que se entienda lo que quiero explicar.
----
The noise they put into the signal (4-6dB noise from the line amplifier) eats the technical links, the commercial channels having more signal well.
You commented that you have 40 meters of cable, they are the ones I have also in the 90cm antenna that I use (40m).
With low loss cable does not matter, if the cable is bad, it eats the signal, I hope you understand what I want to explain.

 

[william-1]

The amplifier will give no benefit as it amplifies only what is there - signal plus noise - and adds more noise.

To spell it out: Connect your receiver as close to the dish as possible. If this is not possible then re-check your dish alignment it's not a good idea to use an amplifier to compensate for old or poor quality cable.

So my advise is remove the signal amplifiers as the only signal that you will see improve is the Signal Level & this is mainly the background noise from the Universe this is what you saw when an old analogue TV had no signal,

The Signal that you want to improve is the Signal Quality if there is none there then you need to reset your dish on your reference satellite @ 1 west.
Try upgrading the cable first to WF125 & eliminate all the cable joins.

 

[Lazarus]

+1

They destroy entirely the possibility of resolving signals near lock threshold.

 

[william-1]

Anyway back to what this thread is all about,
The signal has just fired up for the Dakar Rally good signal here despite the drizzle program content will follow soon,

Octagon SX88 + 100cm Gibertini with IBU Lnb

 

[Tururu]

The amplifier will give no benefit as it amplifies only what is there - signal plus noise - and adds more noise.
To spell it out: Connect your receiver as close to the dish as possible. If this is not possible then re-check your dish alignment it's not a good idea to use an amplifier to compensate for old or poor quality cable.
So my advise is remove the signal amplifiers as the only signal that you will see improve is the Signal Level & this is mainly the background noise from the Universe this is what you saw when an old analogue TV had no signal,
The Signal that you want to improve is the Signal Quality if there is none there then you need to reset your dish on your reference satellite @ 1 west.
Try upgrading the cable first to WF125 & eliminate all the cable joins.

.
Perfect, thanks.

Very cloudy in Madrid, snowing intermittently.

DAKAR_2018_RTL7.jpg

 

[william-1]

 

[Lazarus]

Not a sausage for me.

Maybe I need an In-Line Amp?