Advice Needed Motorised Mystery - Multiple Dreambox 800HDs tried which do not drive various motors with 30m cable

Z

Zoran7310

New Member
Messages
2
My Satellite Setup
Dreambox 800HD PVR (clone) - Gemini clone image - Triax 88cm dish - GeoTrack Superjack H-100 DiseqC 1.2 Satellite Actuator- Technomate TM-1 super high gain LNB (0.1DB)
My Location
Redhill, Surrey, United Kingdom
Hi colleagues,

I would be really grateful for any advice on the following problem that has made my satellite viewing experience quite painful over last 4 years.

I currently have a Dreambox 800HD PVR with motorised dish set-up (namely, Triax 88cm dish and GeoTrack H-100 DiseqC 1.2 Actuator).
My previous motorised system set-up was same Dreambox 800HD PVR with Alsat
Superior Dark Motor).

The other point of note is that there is 30m cable between motor and Dreambox.

The problem is that Dreambox does not move the motor. The situation was the same with my current and previous motorised set-ups.

If the cable is short (e.g. I tried with 2m cable) then Dreambox moves the motor, but with long cable it does not.

When I first set-up the Dreambox, it used to drive motor OK for a little while, and then deteriorated to not reliably moving motor, to final stage of not moving motor at all.

The other point is that I have 2nd Dreambox 800HD (original) that I purchased 1 year ago, hoping to solve my problem, however, this one also did not want to move motor, and basically situation was identical

Have also tried other things, e.g. different 25m/30m cables, different LNBs, a 3rd motor which was a Technomate motor.

However, the problem always the same, and only constant elements really are that it is same Gemini/enigma 2 clone image, and that cable is 25-30m.

Therefore, I currently use a 2nd receiver, namely a Technomate TM-5200D M2+ receiver, to drive the motor, and the signal is then looped through to Dreambox where I watch the channel.

In addition, moving to a single satellite on the Technomate receiver is not always enough to get the channel on the Dreambox, and often I need to move the Technomate receiver to specific transponder on the satellite, before I can switch back to viewing the channel on the Dreambox.

There is a lot of back and forth, and it not very pleasant experience, and only reason that I did not change anything further is because I am used to working with the Dreambox, and it's different possibilities, and I really don't know what else to try.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Best regards,
Zoran
 
Analoguesat

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
48,109
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
It sounds like the power supplies are not providing sufficient voltage. Especially in the first case where it did work then stopped in time. In that case almost certainly degradation of the capacitors in the power supply.

If you can borrow a volt meter you could see what coming out of the box and what you are getting at the end of the 30m cable.
 
Z

Zoran7310

New Member
Messages
2
My Satellite Setup
Dreambox 800HD PVR (clone) - Gemini clone image - Triax 88cm dish - GeoTrack Superjack H-100 DiseqC 1.2 Satellite Actuator- Technomate TM-1 super high gain LNB (0.1DB)
My Location
Redhill, Surrey, United Kingdom
Thank you for the quick reply. I am not very good with electrics, so will try to read up about how to use voltmeter, and how to interpret it, so can check on this.
In theory, your explanation is only explanation left, however, the only strange thing about that explanation is that I experienced same thing with two different Dreambox 800HDs.

One was clone, and other was original. I still have them both, except that in my ignorance I messed up the original by flashing with clone image, which totally blocked receiver from being used, and so I bought a clone sim card to make it work again.
However, the guy who owned original before me, had it working perfectly with a motor.
The only thing i am not sure about is whether I tried to move my motor with the image he had, before I flashed with the clone image.
I think I did, but not 100% sure.
So wondering if the problems could be related to image that I flashed both boxes with, and not the hardware of the Dreambox, since the problem now occurs the same on two different boxes (one clone and one original with clone simcard) that now both have same image.
 
Analoguesat

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
48,109
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
Its possible there were a bad batch of power supplies - Ive seen that on monitor psu's at work in the past. A voltmeter is easy to use - set it to a minimum of 20volts on the scale, and touch the inner & outer of the f-connector port on the back of the receiver. If its on a V polarity channel the meter should read about 13V. If its on a H polarity channel then it should be about 18V.


The voltage drop at the far end of the cable between the inner core & the braid should be minimal, if its say 11V & 16V it wont have the oomph to move the dish

Clones are normally cheaply built, so its more than possible the power supply is inadequate to move a motor - thats certainly happened with clone 500's in the past - its was reported by more than one member!
 
Terryl

Terryl

Specialist Contributor
Messages
2,616
My Satellite Setup
OpenBox X5 on a 1 meter motorized dish.
And now a 10 foot "C" band dish.

Custom built PC
My Location
Deep in the Boonies in the central Sierra Nevada mountains of California.
It could be too much DC voltage loss at the motor.

If it works with a short coax but doesn't with the longer one this could be the problem.

The coax used on a 30 meter run should have a pure copper center conductor, the DC voltage loss could be too high at the motor end if the coax can't handle the load due to a cheap copper plated steel core.

A quick check of the center conductor would be to use a small magnet, if it sticks to the center conductor its the copper plated stuff and that could be the problem.

You can check the DC resistance on the coax with a DVM, disconnect the coax at the motor and receiver, then short the center conductor to the shell of the connector with a small jumper, then take a reading at the other end.

You should see less then 1 ohm, if more then that then please post what it is and we can do a voltage loss calculation.
 
A

A nonymous

Member
Messages
3,586
What type of cable are you using? I have a run of about 35m with an older TM2300 motor at the end of it. None of my boxes including both DM800HD or my older DM7000 E1 box have had any issues with moving the motor.

Haven't had a receiver yet that has had a problem driving the motor, clone or otherwise.

I use Webro WF100 cable, with copper core and copper sheath. No problems with Signal loss or power loss.

Nano
 
smoggy07

smoggy07

Specialist Contributor
Messages
945
My Satellite Setup
Sky minidish and Sky + HD 250gig Anytime+ box with full ish appart from sports and movies, Dreambox DM500s clone (Pli Jade3 max var F/W), Motorised 1.1Meter Dish
My Location
middlesbrough, teesside, northeast coast, uk
+1 for power supply, you might find the receiver will randomly lockup or freeze on changing channels as the supply fails more with time too

I use a CB power pack to run my DM but any 12 volt 2 to 4 AMP power supply with the right end (+ and - are the same on the plug/box end) will do
image (9).jpeg
 
TJExcalibur

TJExcalibur

Sleepy Hollow
Messages
1,686
Location
Out of this world.
My Satellite Setup
Master Focus 90cm .Gigablue UHD Quad 4K on TM 2600 motor. *Tm 5402 HD M3, *Atemio Nemesis. *Not Used.
My Location
Southern England
I was told on these forums years ago to use Webro WF 120. Not very flexible but quality is very good.
 
Tururu

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
Messages
2,814
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
In general, all power supplies are bad clone (since 2008 have DB800S-HD clone and original).
No load/consumption, measured in vacuum well, but under load, the output voltage falls.
The original power supply is easy to know what is, weighs twice, never saw a malfunctioning.

With the passage of time, and now rather bad, it's normal.
Their life expectancy has been 7 months (24 Hours/7days) capacitors have 5.000horas of life (not a mistake, it is in their characteristics, are very inexpensive), after two years of often poorly.
The LED on the power supply when trying to move the engine off/attenuates, if you feed a LED 12 volt 10W to really like "flashes" for this problem.
The tuner screen also tends to blink.

The bad have 2 capacitors in the output filter 220μF, 16V, in good times are from 680μF 16V, endure longer, always one will be busted (for RFI switching) switch 2 for switched it to 105ºC.
1.000μF 20V capacitor (go well) 105ºC.
If the original was tested with the same power supply, the problem recurs.

About the antenna cable, as they say locates peers with live wire (center wire) of 1.13 millimeters and if you find of 1.33mm. with overall diameter less than 10 millimeters, perfect.
--------------------
En general, todas las fuentes de alimentacion clon son malas (desde el 2008 tengo DB800S-HD clon y original).
Sin carga/consumo, en vacio miden bien, pero con carga, se cae la tension de salida.
La fuente de alimentacion original es facil de saber cual es, pesa el doble, nunca vi una averiada.

Con el paso del tiempo, antes bien y ahora mal, es normal.
Tiene en el filtro de salida unos componentes criticos y esperanza de vida son 7 meses (24Horas/7dias), Tiene condensadores de 5.000horas de vida (no es un error, esta en sus caracteristicas buscando por internet localizas esta informacion, son muy baratos), despues de 2 años suelen estar mal.
El led de la fuente de alimentacion al intentar mover el motor se apaga/atenua, si alimentas un led de 10W a 12Voltios veras como "parpadea" por este problema.
La pantalla del sintonizador tambien suele parpadear.

Las malas tienen 2 condensadores en el filtro de salida de 220µF, 16V, en las buenas son de 680µF 16V, aguantan mas tiempo, siempre uno estara reventado (por RFI de conmutacion), cambiar los 2, para conmutadas que sea de 105ºC.
Un condensador de 1.000µF 20V (entran bien) 105ºC.
Si la original se probo con la misma fuente de alimentacion, el problema se repite.

Sobre el cable de antena, localiza como dicen los compañeros cable con el vivo (hilo central) de 1.13 milimetros y si lo encuentras de 1.33mm. con diametro total inferior a 10 milimetros, perfecto.

PS: Minimo 3Amp. 12Voltios.
 
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