Superjack dg320

[Red alert]

Hi all,

Purchased a superjack dg320 about a month ago and was working well until today. The motor looks new and not used, came in box. Motor looks similar to Alsat superior motor and was interested to buy this and try. I installed the motor with new F connectors and re made the cable connections to motor and receiver aswell as lnb. For some reason the motor will only move if I use the “step” function in the positioner setup. Move East/West does not work neither does “goto 0”. I have tried moving with USALS and Diseq C 1.2. I have also tried a few images. I even connected a Octagon SX89 WL to test and the same thing. Motor will not move.

I have been outside to reset the motor and that works and the led’s flash after 3 seconds. If I press the manual east west button the motor will only step east/west. It will only move east if I put slight pressure on the dish to push it east and press the east button. I have also tried disconnecting the lnb and still the same.

Any ideas what I can try next. Otherwise will have to put the superior motor back.

 

[Mickha]

Did you double check your F Connections? In the past I've screwed on F Connectors, which were too tight, for the cable, and discovered that one end cut off most of the braid, leading to an intermittent problem, then complete failure.

 

[a33]

Did you double check your F Connections? In the past I've screwed on F Connectors, which were too tight, for the cable, and discovered that one end cut off most of the braid, leading to an intermittent problem, then complete failure.
View attachment 149603

By the way.
That is the reason for a new (in german forums) advocated procedure between cable 4 and cable 5 in your picture: don't put the braid 'down' over the 'black' outside of the cable (as is shown in cable 5 of the picture); but rotate it over the di-electricum, just above the black outside of the cable (clock-wise, in the screw-on direction). The black cable-outside will push the braid against the F-plug-inside.
No more cut-offs then.


@Red alert :
Did you check a possible power issue: not enough current from the receiver, or too much resistance in the cable?
Did you try the Octagon SX89 with a very short piece of cable?

And have you tried if the motor moves, when no LNB is connected, (edit: also with the SX89? I only now read that you've tested that with one receiver, already, but maybe not with both.) ?

Greetz,
A33

 

[Red alert]

By the way.
That is the reason for a new (in german forums) advocated procedure between cable 4 and cable 5 in your picture: don't put the braid 'down' over the 'black' outside of the cable (as is shown in cable 5 of the picture); but rotate it over the di-electricum, just above the black outside of the cable (clock-wise, in the screw-on direction). The black cable-outside will push the braid against the F-plug-inside.
No more cut-offs then.


@Red alert :
Did you check a possible power issue: not enough current from the receiver, or too much resistance in the cable?
Did you try the Octagon SX89 with a very short piece of cable?

And have you tried if the motor moves, when no LNB is connected, (edit: also with the SX89? I only now read that you've tested that with one receiver, already, but maybe not with both.) ?

Greetz,
A33

Interesting, what could cause extra resistance in the cable because I had a Stab motor that got stuck also and burnt component. Would too much resistance in cable cause a motor to short? The cable is 30m from receiver to dish.

I tried the sx89 with the same cable not a short cable and the result was same. I have disconnected the lnb and same result. Check my receiver motor menu attached. I have option of enabling increased voltage. I have always set this to “No”

 

[a33]

Interesting, what could cause extra resistance in the cable because I had a Stab motor that got stuck also and burnt component. Would too much resistance in cable cause a motor to short? The cable is 30m from receiver to dish.

Too much cable resistance would mean too few power/voltage reaching the motor. I don't think that less voltage could ever cause a short!
I've had a STAB with a burnt R20 I believe, but later testing proved that an IC (U2) was shorted, that did cause the R20 to be burnt. You read it sometimes, about STAB motors, alas. (original topic, in dutch: STAB HH100 onderdeeltje doorgebrand )


You could test with 'increased voltage', but that was originally meant for switching problems from 13 to 18 volt.
When you test this for your motor and it works: Eureka! But if it doesn't work, you still don't know more....

I've had a long run of not-too-good cable leading to my motor setup once, and had (STAmotor issues also: on some commands it did turn, on others it didn't. With another cable, temporarily, all was OK again.
When I used another receiver, all problems vanished, and I could use the old cable again.
Since then, I prefer all-copper cables. Not CCS (copper cladded steel) cables.

Otherwise, I've no cue what could be the matter with your system.....

greetz,
A33

 

[Red alert]

Too much cable resistance would mean too few power/voltage reaching the motor. I don't think that less voltage could ever cause a short!
I've had a STAB with a burnt R20 I believe, but later testing proved that an IC (U2) was shorted, that did cause the R20 to be burnt. You read it sometimes, about STAB motors, alas. (original topic, in dutch: STAB HH100 onderdeeltje doorgebrand )


You could test with 'increased voltage', but that was originally meant for switching problems from 13 to 18 volt.
When you test this for your motor and it works: Eureka! But if it doesn't work, you still don't know more....

I've had a long run of not-too-good cable leading to my motor setup once, and had (STAmotor issues also: on some commands it did turn, on others it didn't. With another cable, temporarily, all was OK again.
When I used another receiver, all problems vanished, and I could use the old cable again.
Since then, I prefer all-copper cables. Not CCS (copper cladded steel) cables.

Otherwise, I've no cue what could be the matter with your system.....

greetz,
A33

I will try to make a short cable and test on both receivers. The cable I use is this one

Single Webro WF100 Copper Core & Braid

Have you heard of any problems with that cable?

Thanks for the help.

 

[a33]

Copper Core & Braid

In that case I see no cable issue. If the F-connectors make good contact.

 

[jeallen01]

FWIW, the connection here between the SX88+ and the Alsat Superior motor at the end of the garden is at least 25m and consists of a mixture of long lengths of 25yr old RG6 (!) and (I think!) WF100 &/or CT150 and with an antenna relay switch, a Smart Priority Switch (SPS) and quite a few (possibly 5 or 6) short lengths of WF100 linking various of those items to the motor connection on the motor under the 1.2m Gibby - i.e. a horrible mishmash of "stuff" with multiple F-connections and which most of the colleagues on the forum would roundly (and rightly!) condemn! However that mishmash does work and the motor does drive the dish from 53E to 40W (would probably go further but the arc is limited by surrounding buildings!).

Also to confirm that a reduced voltage to the motor would certainly not cause a "short" provided that all the connections are correctly made and waterproofed, although it could possibly cause the motor to run more slowly, and/or possibly to stall if the dish load is too heavy.

 

[Red alert]

FWIW, the connection here between the SX88+ and the Alsat Superior motor at the end of the garden is at least 25m and consists of a mixture of long lengths of 25yr old RG6 (!) and (I think!) WF100 &/or CT150 and with an antenna relay switch, a Smart Priority Switch (SPS) and quite a few (possibly 5 or 6) short lengths of WF100 linking various of those items to the motor connection on the motor under the 1.2m Gibby - i.e. a horrible mishmash of "stuff" with multiple F-connections and which most of the colleagues on the forum would roundly (and rightly!) condemn! However that mishmash does work and the motor does drive the dish from 53E to 40W (would probably go further but the arc is limited by surrounding buildings!).

Also to confirm that a reduced voltage to the motor would certainly not cause a "short" provided that all the connections are correctly made and waterproofed, although it could possibly cause the motor to run more slowly, and/or possibly to stall if the dish load is too heavy.

The Alsat can drive the dish fine but just requires a bit of soldering around the lnb port as is a bit loose, so disconnected it for now and got a Jaegar.

I don’t think the Gibertini xp 100 would cause that much of a load on the superjack motor as was working fine for a month. Suppose I would need to remove the dish from the motor as a test, but only after I have tested with shorter cable. Unless wind + Dish weight would put too much stress on motor?

The thing is that the dish will move East if I help it by putting slight pressure while I press the East button on motor. Also why would only the step east/west function work from the receiver menu.

 

[jeallen01]

1) The Alsat can drive the dish fine but just requires a bit of soldering around the lnb port as is a bit loose, so disconnected it for now and got a Jaegar.

I don’t think the Gibertini xp 100 would cause that much of a load on the superjack motor as was working fine for a month. Suppose I would need to remove the dish from the motor as a test, but only after I have tested with shorter cable. Unless wind + Dish weight would put too much stress on motor?

2)/3): The thing is that the dish will move East if I help it by putting slight pressure while I press the East button on motor. Also why would only the step east/west function work from the receiver menu.

1) Get a soldering iron & some solder (lead/tin would be best as it melts at a lower temp than lead-free) and fix the Alsat!
(Had to do that with several sat Rxs & a sat meter, but never, so far, with a motor)
Edited: It'll need to be a moderately sized iron because you'll need to heat up quite a lot of solder and the surrounding metalwork of the motor - I'd start with at least a 25-30W one (but then again, I've got quite a selection to choose from )
2) Sounds like there may be a similar fault with the replacement, or else a failing component within it?
3) Alternatively, possibly, the motor-to-motor pole clearance has tightened up and so there is more resitance for the motor to deal with and so it needs some "help"? (OTOH, the opposite usually happens and so the motor overshoots when driving to a new sat!)

 

[Red alert]

Thanks, could you expand on point 3, do you mean the motor brackets on the pole? Or dish brackets on motor pole? Also would high wind cause it to tighten?

 

[jeallen01]

Thanks, could you expand on point 3, do you mean the motor brackets on the pole? Or dish brackets on motor pole? Also would high wind cause it to tighten?

Neither - the backlash adjustment inside the motor may have tightened up. If this actually a Superior Dark Motor clone then there's an adjustment screw behind a small hole (covered by a "Do not remove" label!) on one side of the motor body which is on the Righthand side when the motor is viewed from the LNB. That hole may well be partially covered by one of the motor mounting brackets, but releasing the 2x bolts on that side of the motor should allow clear access to the adjustment screw.

Then adjust the screw very carefully in very small steps so that the motor moves fairly easily when driven! Then fill the access hole with some grease, refit the mounting bolts and (hopefully) the motor will then work correctly!?

OTOH, the opposite usually happens and the backlash becomes looser! This whole subject has been covered quite a few times on the forum, so do a bit of searching if you think this might be the issue.

 

[jeallen01]

PS: forgot to mention that the "adjustment screw" isn't actually a screw but a 5 or 6mm socket-head bolt, so you will need an appropriate hex-headed "allen" key!

 

[Manikm909]

you can see here...

Just Sharing This - dark motor backlash adjustment HEX nut

today, I cut off some of the annoying bit of the bracket that blocks access to the adjustment hole. it makes life a lot easier to get to, no more need to loosen the side bolts. #justsaying

www.satellites.co.uk

 

[jeallen01]

you can see here...

Just Sharing This - dark motor backlash adjustment HEX nut

today, I cut off some of the annoying bit of the bracket that blocks access to the adjustment hole. it makes life a lot easier to get to, no more need to loosen the side bolts. #justsaying

www.satellites.co.uk

Probably a sensible idea, but didn't have to do that adjustment often enough to feel the need to go to those lengths - but also found that after adjustment after 2-3 months of "bedding in", it didn't seem to need doing again later on.

 

[Manikm909]

Probably a sensible idea, but didn't have to do that adjustment often enough to feel the need to go to those lengths - but also found that after adjustment after 2-3 months of "bedding in", it didn't seem to need doing again later on.no

thankfully - I no longer have to worry about DISEQ motors.

 

[jeallen01]

thankfully - I no longer have to worry about DISEQ motors.

Remember that ALL mechanical moving parts can be subject to wear & tear, leading to slackness and lack of accurate movement control, and therefore here's a "FWIW question": Is the use of backlash adjustment restricted to DiSEqC motors, and thus is not used for other motor types ??

In fact I really doubt that to be case because, after all, "DiSEqC" is only the signalling protocol for controlling the motor movement - and that control can equally be provided by 36V (or other) control voltages in a different way (as it historically was before the invention of DiSEqC)!!

Therefore don't "celebrate" too soon!!

 

[Manikm909]

im sure my 24" and 36" jacks, will give me plenty of problems in time.

 

[Red alert]

Ok, so shorter cable did not make difference for both receivers. After another day of high wind the motor decided to move again, which suggests it is affecting the backlash in some way that it tightens then on another day becomes slightly looser? A day after of moving the dish it stops again at 13 east and only steps East/West. I do remember the motor has a sticker on the side just like dark motor, so will adjust the backlash as soon as my sprained wrist heals.

Just wondering is the East/West limits on dark motor hardware based or software based?

 

[jeallen01]

There is no Port called "A" or "B". Just "Disable" and "Uncommit 1", Uncommit 2, Uncommit 3 etc...

Ok, so shorter cable did not make difference for both receivers. After another day of high wind the motor decided to move again, which suggests it is affecting the backlash in some way that it tightens then on another day becomes slightly looser? A day after of moving the dish it stops again at 13 east and only steps East/West. I do remember the motor has a sticker on the side just like dark motor, so will adjust the backlash as soon as my sprained wrist heals.

Just wondering is the East/West limits on dark motor hardware based or software based?

I would (probably!) agree with the backlast comment - OTOH, can't help with the limits issues because I've rarely if ever needed to set them (and certainly not with the Dark Motors)