DISH ALIGNMENT PROBLEMS?

[jackpeas]

HI Old Sat,That what I have been saing, my arm reach from amc7 137 to NSS 806@40deg tp 31 &32 it something there.Vincor is where I buy some of my sat stuff. They oder my dish for me from DH Satellite drop it of at my house.I had 1 bad arm(Von WEise 24''arm) the rest are good. Now how do test and check the 4dtv? thank you jackp n Chicago

 

[Old Satellite]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-Jun-02 AT 07:33 AM (GMT)]The current coverage from NSS806 at 40.0 through to 137 seems fine for a standard polar mount the best is normally around the 100-120 degrees at the moment you are pretty much there.

The Von Wiese jack that is faulty do you have an idea what caused this ? was it locked or bent against the pole or mount?

As you know the von wiese is one of the better jacks on the market - is it much older than the others?

Channel Hopper is correct the pole is normal1y in a high winds location to small. 5" is the normal- my own 3.7 sits on 5.5" but I assume that your cross brace it pretty strong. if your sure that wind is not moving the mount, you can try to align again.

The Baterry charger voltage 12vdc (36 vdc is required) is perhaps to low, underload to move the jack arms when driving the dish.

First I would check the cable from the dish through to your receivers, before you hook up the 4DTV. take the chapperal and check that it will now drive the dish.

Check this on the ground first by hooking up the good jacks to the chapperal and checking that they move ok


Once you have got the the dish moving using the chapperal then leave it at position so that you can update the 4DTV reciever.

Check the east and west limits of the jack arm to make sure that you are not exceeding their mechanical limits and then re-program the 4dtv limits once again.


I am travelling agin the next couple of days so sorry it it takes a while to respond.

Old Satellite

 

[Channel Hopper]

Jackpeas

The DH polarmount for any satellite dish of this size is based on a 5" design as Old Satellite confirmed

If you are using a 3" version it cannot have come from DH. The height of the dish above ground already (14' you said elsewhere) suggests that bracing (or at least strong tethers) near the dish is required to ground points beyond the dish extremes.

Additionally DH make 9' and 11' antennas but not a 10'

Where did you say you got all of this from ?

Sorry if this is not helping get the channels but if the foundation or fittings to the dish are not as the manufacturer designed them, its going to be almost impossible to align the dish to all satellites.

 

[jackpeas]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 12-Jun-02 AT 06:17 AM (GMT)]HI OLD SAT,Do the chaparral rceiver has to be connected to the lnb cables? Can I take it down in the basement and hook it to one of the good arm? Their is no lnb cables down there.ALso can I put 12 volts on the senser wire and the ground wire with the bare wire?(Iwas thinking of putting 12v light at the dish end,the light has 2 lead and if the light come on its good)This is quick test to send power thru the2 smaller cable.The 2 motor cable is good I sent 12v already. Thank you jackp n chicago To add I have test the 2 small cable and all the cables is good. Now on to the receiver. Ihave my JGS 24 '' arm at the dish and its move the dish. Can I hook up the monterey 95 receiver since we know its not the cable,the 4dtv is not sending out the right volts or something.

 

[jackpeas]

HI CH, I am sorry about saing its was a 10 ft dish, but its a 3.0 m dish. That on the manual.With your and OLD SAT help we can get this thing going. I want test and check everything before I call (GI) they make the 4dtv.But I have to know its the 4dtv that is bad. I have a 4dtv 920 that is bad too, Iwill send both of them in. Thank you jackp n Chicago

 

[Channel Hopper]

Even the 3m dish from DHSatellite is supposed to have a 5" post

I cannot see any version where a 3" foundation is standard for this size of antenna

 

[jackpeas]

HI CH, I order thru Vincor,who is about 30 mile from me.I have the 48'' back ring. 5 1/2 base can,( he change it to 3'' adapter because my pipe was 3''.) I thourgh it would be 4''(I had cut 4'' sleeve for it)But it came 3''base can. Its say 10'ft (3m) 36''f/1 .3f/d.I call the maker of the dish and ask for the model number(no model number) you have to call them for partys.Thank you Jackp n chicago

 

[Channel Hopper]

Vincor

I remember them at Washington last year

 

[jackpeas]

HI CH,My cables is good.I put a 12v light/2 lead at the dish and it came on. I have had this dish in July will be 1 year.Let me start over.I went to Vincor and order this dish, Thinking with a solid I wuold get a better picture. My wineguard 10ft quarstar is a sweet dish and it was getting old.I go to Vincor when I need something or they are running a specical on lnb. DH satellite brought it to my house.I took down my wineguard(mesh)dish. I installed it myself with help fron 2 other.I did not know I was not tracking the arc( I was getting almost al of the sat,I have trees) But when the leave fell of the trees and I could not get pas B6@ 74 deg. My wineguard was align by a sat-repairman and did a good job.I tried to align it my self and fail. So I decided to get someone to align it for me. He came out and played with 4dtv 922, he did not turn a bolt and I had to pay him $100 big one. Next I Order the skyvision alignment video. I got my wineguard and Tracker 10 receiver. I buy parts and supply from them to. I did not get what the video was saying, but i kinda understand the data sheet .They had sent me another data sheet with my wineguard.The arc-set that I order from Jim Robert(Gourmet Entainning The one in all the sat-mag) I talk to him on the phone.Now I got sat-book to many to state here. By the way this is my 3rd dish I have installed(1st radio shack HH drive,2nd wineguard and DH Satellite)I had planned to cut cable tv a loose.That why I got everything new,new 4dtv922,new 36 Venture arm,new 120 ft rg6 ribbon cable.I had a 4dtv 920 receiver(it had been in the shop 2 time Now it has to go again) I am talking (2) 4dtv that may have to go to the shop. It looking like the new 922 receiver have to go. I have not check it out yet. When I send my receivers out for repair sometime it take 4 or 5 weeks for me to get it back.That to long.I have the electric level the read the angle.I have the canary and arc-set from jim Roberts(these are alignment tools)this is another data sheet. I also have the buzz-I-meter and sat-finder meter. Maybe you can pickup what I am tring to say.I have been getting alot of channel.On this dish I can not measure from the feed to the edge( the edge is roll over making it hard to read the tape) My wineguard has a rim .Do you have any Ideal how to get this reading(tring to fine if the feed is center?) Thank you jackp n chicago

 

[Old Satellite]

Vincor - I am suprised that they would agree that you could mount a 3.0 mtr dish on a 3 inch mount, even with the bracing.

Has Channel Hopper has identified this is a major consideration you have on your dish a beam width of less than 1.0 degree. If the pole is not 100% vertical and without any movement from the wind, then you will never fully align the dish.

You should now be able to use the chapperral receiver to drive the dish. hook it up but check the direction and limit switches first- prefer on the ground. make sure some one can watch as you drive the dish to make sure that you do not make contact with the mount.
you do not need to hook up the Co-rotor while you check this out.

Once you have done this, I would suggest you hook up the chapperal, and co-rotor and check out the current dish alignment. and then report back on what you can recieve either in KU or C band.

The 4DTV may not be damaged? and you should be able to check it out on the ground,

First use the chapperal if every thing is working to move the dish then hook up the 4DTV to download the updated channel list.

Reset the limits for the 4DTV reciever, and then check out what is working. unless you hooked up the sensor wires with the motor outputs(crossed them over) then normally the 4dtv should be ok ?

dont forget to use the test satellite range identified previously to check out the intial satellite arc profile.

Old Satellite

 

[jackpeas]

Hello, I have got the Von Weise taken apart tring to find what is wrong with it. When I put the 12v power to nothing happen with the outter sleeve of. Now maybe inside the motor gearbox something is mess up. Their is a person who help me with my arms. At american sat(SHERRy) I had the number some where.I got to buy some supply from her.I have overextender my arm and crack the bushing inside. I got the bushing from her.All of my arms I repairs them myself.Since sat-parts is hard to get. Jackp n Chicago

 

[jackpeas]

HI CH,ARE you saing that the dish cann't be align,I still have my wineguard dish? I was talking to the sat-tech(he order for me this dish)He said I would never get it align unless I get a declination of 6.3. At the time I think I had elevation 41.5.I have been tring to get sat-peeson out here to align the dish. When I see someone with a dish I ask them who is their repairman? No reply. I will keep asking.Now let me tell you what happen.I hook up my mont 95 receiver to the dish and wouldn't move so I change the outlet.It came on(power on) it move the dish but it get stuck and won't move. I have to unplug the receiver for it to move. I think I will take theJGS arm off put the 36'' arm back on.The 4dtv is on surg-potection outleg.How do I check the outlets to make sure that it put out the right amount of amp.and volts? I have A lot of thing plug in the outletsbut they are not running at the sametime.We know the cable is good because we move the dish.The receiver we don't know yet.thank you jackp n Chicago

 

[Old Satellite]

Your old dish was a mesh panel as a conseqence upto around the 60 mph wind gust point the load on your mount would have been much less.

Did you ever experience a loss of signal from your old dish during higher wind gusts ?

As we highlighted if the pole is moving from vertical when you rotate the dish then potentially you will never align the dish.

It seams like if the chapperal receiver can still not drive the dish then maybe there is a mechanical problem at the dish itself- how easy is it to move the dish by hand on the mount?

Next with the chapperal on the ground hook up the 36" jack arm to the back panel and check that it will move the jack - make sure you have a friend to hold the clamp support bracket to stop the whole jack rotating.

put the jack back on the dish and then check see if you move the dish ?

The normal output is 36VDC at between 3amps and 5 amps, you can check the output of the receiver with a meter if you have one ?

you can perhaps use asmall lamp 110 volt, you should see some light from it. but a meter is much better option.

OLD SATELLITE

 

[Channel Hopper]

Now that its been confirmed that the dish post is 3", looking at the second picture sent (thread page 4), this looks like a standard 1" diameter shaft unit, and not a heavy duty 2" actuator that is recommended for dishes of this size.

The polarmount also looks from its alignment as though it has to lift the dish up to around 40degrees elevation, which on a 3m will cause a lot of strain, especially when the receiver has to pull the dish back on the return run from a low elevation satellite. This may explain why the receiver will not move the dish to the third satellite.


Additionally I remember some Chaparral Monterey receivers were originally 24V imported into this country, and would not drive the newer 36v actuators that were appearing at the time. There were also faults in the thermal fuse parameters of the actuator drive circuit which were quietly replaced under warranty, and then charged an earth for if they failed after the first year.

What is the rated output drive voltage of your receiver (its in the manual and probably on the back panel next to the postioner DC outputs)

 

[jackpeas]

HI OLD SAT,I have found my #5 arm(its a supperjack arm24''like the little one I have the 18'') The arm was made to move the dish from the post(under the dish and push up like HH mount) I have no clamp to used it as the other arms.This arm I have not used It much and it seem to be very tight(when I try to turn by hand) I connected to the battery charger,Its move.The DH satellite dish is very heavy( 36'' arm and battery charger at the dish, the reading on the charger went up to about 9 to12 amp.So maybe I need a 52''arm(to make easy to move) just joking I took the 36" arm off went back to 1/2" theard rod. If I don't have the thing going by july,Iam going to take it down and installed my wineguard (the sat-repairman align this one, so hopeful when this one goe bach it work.My solid dish cost me about $1000.00, the36" arm over $200,the receiver4dtv922 over $700(5 year warranity 2remote) plus 120ft rg6 cable.Programming,new lnb These thing cost a lot.I got so many note that note got note.I copy (printed it out with my printer that with the computer.My webtv don't have a printer) that geo-orbit(alignment,feed,) site. I think I have been to every sat-site on the web, I might have miss a few.I am member of a lot sat-forum,groups,bulliten board. I am given it to july to straighten this dish out (outt-here) Thank guys you are the greates jackp N chicago I have to say this with a tear in my eyes,You are professional(what I mean is that you could have hammer me over the head,but you didn't.You could have called me name like bone head and other (maybe you did but I didn't hear you)This teach me something( you dont have to be lous or make alot noise) to get you point across. thank

 

[Old Satellite]

This seems like the mount is bent or some thing- it should rotate with your hand easily.

The 9-10 amps is way to high even if the battery charger output is only 12 volt. the superjack 36 " normally draws around the three amp mark under full stall load 3600 Ibs if i remember, i use one for elevation and it only draws around 2 amp moving the elevation of my 3.7Mtr.

Some thing is way wrong, it seems like some thing is having to bend when you power the jack to move the dish.

A 36" heavy duty jack (Von Wiese or a Superjack) should easily move your dish and even a 4.5mtr without to much of a problem.

can you see at the mount any thing that is bending or binding?

Dont give up on the DH dish under the right conditions, it is pretty much one of the best dishes (highest gain) that you can buy. its extra gain over uour old dish could be anything from 2-6 db (3 db is a doubling in recieved signal strength) on the KU Band dependent upon the condition of the old dish.

Old Satellite

 

[Channel Hopper]

10 Amps will take out the cabling after a very short (sic ) time. Five amps is the maximum rating of any domestic receiver drive circuit.

Again I must point out that the angles of the polarmont and its relation to the motor bearings will have an impact on the start up and moving currents required. If the actuator is set to receive very low elevation satellite viewing then the start up drive need to be much higher

Can you take a picture of the polarmont from above when the dish is at its Weasternmost position (that is if you are in Chicago/North Hemisphere)?

Mybe its about time Vicor proved what they have sold you works by putting you in touch with another customer with the same setup

 

[jackpeas]

HI OLD SATELLITE, some of the guys at the 4dtv forum(Delphi) think my 36" arm is bent.I don't think so. That a big arm, over 2" round and strong.How can I tell? Maybe I don't know.Remember the declination (31 turn on the declination rod for that 6.5,this lift the dish up and put more weight on the arm) You remember the 48'' ring(4 stud bolts and about 6'' of stud) Top2 is where we adjust them. The bottom 2 no adjusting(they are about 2'' from the ring, all the stud are doublenutts) On the L beam(elevation) Not the top part where you put your angle finder.But where the center of dish the go(lot room between the dish and the box beam. I will take picture. Its seem to be heavy(but I move it al the time when change actuator) And there is hope yet. I will check it more closer to see if anything bent. Thank jackp n chicago

 

[jackpeas]

HI CH, Yes I will take picture of the dish and declination rod.I will try the arm and receiver with no load. To see if they are bent or something. I want to check the apm while its running.Remember I having problem with 2 IRD receiver,1 positioner.They would not move the dish,But the battery charger did because it was putting out more amp and less volts.Does that make any sence?Ok I am guesting. Thank jackp n Chicago Can I run the receiver without the lnb cables?(just the receiver short 6ft motor cable and arm)This will tell me if its the receiver or arm.With the monterey95 i need the onscreen menu. what about the positioner?

 

[Old Satellite]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 14-Jun-02 AT 01:04 PM (GMT)]Hi Jackpeas,

It only takes a couple of 1/16ths and your jack will need a lot my current(amps) to drive. one of the easy ways to check is to see if you have areas of the jack arm that have all of the paint or metal scraped off when it extends.

Next i seem to rememer in the previous post that you had sent the declination to 6.5 is that correct ?

According to the DH manual chicago is approx 41.5N 87 west that normally means approx 5.66. would be the declination can you check this out jackpeas?

Test the jacks first with the battery charger without any load on the ground what current(amps) do they draw ?

Normally for the super jack and von wiese draw around two amps with no load and around the 1.8-2.7 amp when first starting with out load
(measured on a digital power supply)
I see only an extra 0.5 amp under load for driving the elevation on my 3.7

Is unlikely that they are all bent - unless as Channel Hopper said that some thing is majorly wrong at the mount.

Please also check that cable as not suffered from the excess load that it has been subjected to - avoid a fire now! any signs then change it out.

I would leave the recievers alone for the moment to prevent any further potential damage.

The baterry charger is a cheaper option at the moment? to get the mount problem fixed.

Regards

Old Satellite